AT-LP120 and Technics Sl-1200 MK2

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That's the problem I've always had with this thread. The obvious comparison is other new turntables at the same price. If it were technics secondhand, then the comparison is with other secondhand turntables at the same price, and I can think of a few that would be better than the Technics assuming a price of around the 500€ mark.

I'd hesitate a bit about recommending the AT. The antiskating apparently is not effective, and there have been reported problems with the motor. True, the latter is a warranty repair, but I'd be more comfortable recommending turntables like the Pro-jects and the Regas where you know there has been investment in Research and Development by the manufacturers, which is not the case with the AT.

P.S thanks for the info about the Dual. Might give the sellers a call later.
 
The main reason to recommend the A-T over the BD competition would be that it would less "tweaky' for someone best served by a simple plug-and-play option.
If the price is reasonable on the Dual for cdx I'd act on it, do a bit of on-line research on it.
 
"I want to get into turntables. My idea of a turntable is the Technics 1200 because I see it all the time. But I can't find or afford one. Is the AT that looks like it at all a viable option?"
 
I would be more than happy to give you hits, tips and the simplest mod..that being, rewire the arm with litz wire..easiest job you could imagine and so worth it...not that duals have bad wires (they don't) ..I just hate those dang sled connections...:D

As interested as I am in the DD Dual now I am aware that I do have a Sony PS-X70 on standby that is possibly a better TT now than the Dual would be after being upgraded. Thoughts?
 
Wood, why?

Reading the last few pages, i came across this comment ''name calling will not be tolerated'', but i guess that this doesn't apply when the target is an SL-1200 owner, and the name calling is ''fanboy''.

Public comments on moderation are not allowed on the forums, if you have a beef with the moderation, take it to a private message. Further, if you see name calling the other way around, there is a little
report.gif
symbol on every post that can be used to identify rules violations to the moderation staff.

I'd be willing to bet that if some Chinese company came out with a cheap Rega RP3 imitation and someone did a comparison with the ''real'' RP3, we might discover a whole new flock of Rega enthusiast ;) willing to go to great lenth to defend their beloved turnable.

Isn't this what the U-turn turntable was, in effect? I'd love to see a comparison of the two.
Funny thing, i seem to remember a few Travelers threads that got closed when some VPI enthusiast ;) ran out of excuses to justify all the problems VPI was having with their newest entry.

If you think that "running out of excuses" was the reason why the traveler threads getting closed, then you missed something far more obvious. There should have never been a need to "run out of excuses".
 
Grotty ..You did it again !!!

That's the problem I've always had with this thread. The obvious comparison is other new turntables at the same price. If it were technics secondhand, then the comparison is with other secondhand turntables at the same price, and I can think of a few that would be better than the Technics assuming a price of around the 500€ mark.

I'd hesitate a bit about recommending the AT. The antiskating apparently is not effective, and there have been reported problems with the motor. True, the latter is a warranty repair, but I'd be more comfortable recommending turntables like the Pro-jects and the Regas where you know there has been investment in Research and Development by the manufacturers, which is not the case with the AT.

P.S thanks for the info about the Dual. Might give the sellers a call later.

1) The anti-skate is NOT a problem, it just requires a different adjustment than the standard (but inaccurate) method of setting it the same as VTF
2) What motor issues ? You make broad statements, but don't back it up with facts. what is the motor failure rate? How is that failure rate compared to Rega, Pro-ject, Denon, Technics..Don't give me guesses or hearsay, give me published % specs

Side note - The Dual 1019 is a classic but THINK you may be happier with a newer direct drive model simply due to wow/flutter, its an idler drive and much older..Though quite a good classic...
 
Two fine tables

As interested as I am in the DD Dual now I am aware that I do have a Sony PS-X70 on standby that is possibly a better TT now than the Dual would be after being upgraded. Thoughts?

But completely different styles, I cant see the specs on the Sony (I am sure they are good) but I would favor the Dual only for several reasons...

1) It has awesome specs and speed control
2) The anti-resonance arms
3) Its a simpler machine yet engineered superb - what do I mean ? The Sony uses a lot of boards and electronics. The Dual does not..it uses superb mechanicals (as well as electronics) but to a degree easier to work on.
4) The Dual is suspended
5) You can get Dual WOOD bases to replace the standard plastic one...

MAYBE I am biased, but know I LOVE the SONY's also...I just see them as two different types of tables...:D
 
1) The anti-skate is NOT a problem, it just requires a different adjustment than the standard (but inaccurate) method of setting it the same as VTF
2) What motor issues ? You make broad statements, but don't back it up with facts. what is the motor failure rate? How is that failure rate compared to Rega, Pro-ject, Denon, Technics..Don't give me guesses or hearsay, give me published % specs

Side note - The Dual 1019 is a classic but THINK you may be happier with a newer direct drive model simply due to wow/flutter, its an idler drive and much older..Though quite a good classic...
Don't know what you mean about standard antiskate setting. My lenco uses a weight, Rega is magnetic - what do you think is the standard? Which do you think is inaccurate? out of interest I set according to manufacturer instructions and check with my scales, and have yet to find any great inaccuracy. Also, look at the other AT thread for comments about the AT anti skate

No broad statement - have a search on this forum about motor issues. Also note I said it was a warranty repair. I don't know of any problems for new Rega or Pro-ject motors, which isn't to say there aren't some. Again, if there were, they'd be warranty repairs.

I'll admit the antiskate and the fact AT don't know whether their arm is high or low mass concerns me a bit. They're obviously not the manufacturers, but you'd think they'd know what is some basic information.
 
But completely different styles, I cant see the specs on the Sony (I am sure they are good) but I would favor the Dual only for several reasons...

1) It has awesome specs and speed control
2) The anti-resonance arms
3) Its a simpler machine yet engineered superb - what do I mean ? The Sony uses a lot of boards and electronics. The Dual does not..it uses superb mechanicals (as well as electronics) but to a degree easier to work on.
4) The Dual is suspended
5) You can get Dual WOOD bases to replace the standard plastic one...

MAYBE I am biased, but know I LOVE the SONY's also...I just see them as two different types of tables...:D

See, that's the quandary, they are different tho' both DD. That's why I'd find an available upper-end Dual DD irresistable (that and perhaps some nostalgia).
 
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You said

Don't know what you mean about standard antiskate setting. My lenco uses a weight, Rega is magnetic - what do you think is the standard? Which do you think is inaccurate? out of interest I set according to manufacturer instructions and check with my scales, and have yet to find any great inaccuracy. Also, look at the other AT thread for comments about the AT anti skate

No broad statement - have a search on this forum about motor issues. Also note I said it was a warranty repair. I don't know of any problems for new Rega or Pro-ject motors, which isn't to say there aren't some. Again, if there were, they'd be warranty repairs.

I'll admit the antiskate and the fact AT don't know whether their arm is high or low mass concerns me a bit. They're obviously not the manufacturers, but you'd think they'd know what is some basic information.

IT was a motor, issue, singular, not plural. There have been no reputational issues with AT motors though I can attest that there are for Rega's due to the rubber band suspensions, etc. pro-ject motors - leave the transit screws in, take the transit screws out...yet, no one disparages Rega or Project

Anti-skate - If you are setting anti-skate according to factory instructions, then you can only guess if its correct. This has been (anti-skate) exhaustively discussed in other threads. I recently found a more sure way than before with my new test record that uses a series of rising tones till a buzz occurs in one of the other channel telling me to increase or decrease...then when perfect, that same set of rising tones should finally buzz equally near the end.

On the AT, its a matter of degrees, calibration thought like any measurement. A 1.5 on a regular machine is a 3 on the AT. a 2.5 is a 5..its just a tool. If you erased the numbers and just used a method to verify anti-skate, the you would see they are irrelevant. So there is no anti-skate issue - the issue is calibration and what people perceive as the norm.

Might send you guys a clip of this..
 
Find

See, that's the quandary, they are different tho' both DD. That's why I'd find an available upper-end Dual DD irresistable (that and perhaps some nostalgia).

Find a 721 and be amazed...LOL..its seriously a very well built beast (aside from the chintzy base most come with...lol)..At least there ARE Dual wood bases out there or it is so dang easy to make your own...
 
I've heard similar praise for the idler drive 1019, 1229, and the upper-end ELAC idlers. So many candidates, so little time----.
 
IT was a motor, issue, singular, not plural. There have been no reputational issues with AT motors though I can attest that there are for Rega's due to the rubber band suspensions, etc. pro-ject motors - leave the transit screws in, take the transit screws out...yet, no one disparages Rega or Project

Anti-skate - If you are setting anti-skate according to factory instructions, then you can only guess if its correct. This has been (anti-skate) exhaustively discussed in other threads. I recently found a more sure way than before with my new test record that uses a series of rising tones till a buzz occurs in one of the other channel telling me to increase or decrease...then when perfect, that same set of rising tones should finally buzz equally near the end.

On the AT, its a matter of degrees, calibration thought like any measurement. A 1.5 on a regular machine is a 3 on the AT. a 2.5 is a 5..its just a tool. If you erased the numbers and just used a method to verify anti-skate, the you would see they are irrelevant. So there is no anti-skate issue - the issue is calibration and what people perceive as the norm.

Might send you guys a clip of this..

Agreed. You need to test to see if your TT is "calibrated", but that applies to most every brand, especially used ones that have been thrashed ... I might trust a DUAL antiskate or a B&O a bit more, but tracking a test record or a blank vinyl disk is the only real way to know :scratch2:
 
IT was a motor, issue, singular, not plural. There have been no reputational issues with AT motors though I can attest that there are for Rega's due to the rubber band suspensions, etc. pro-ject motors - leave the transit screws in, take the transit screws out...yet, no one disparages Rega or Project

Anti-skate - If you are setting anti-skate according to factory instructions, then you can only guess if its correct. This has been (anti-skate) exhaustively discussed in other threads. I recently found a more sure way than before with my new test record that uses a series of rising tones till a buzz occurs in one of the other channel telling me to increase or decrease...then when perfect, that same set of rising tones should finally buzz equally near the end.

On the AT, its a matter of degrees, calibration thought like any measurement. A 1.5 on a regular machine is a 3 on the AT. a 2.5 is a 5..its just a tool. If you erased the numbers and just used a method to verify anti-skate, the you would see they are irrelevant. So there is no anti-skate issue - the issue is calibration and what people perceive as the norm.

Might send you guys a clip of this..
I think you'll find the knocking was in more than one instance, and a google search would find more, but that's by the by. As to the other brands, I can't comment since you haven't provided any details, but again I'm sure if there were problems warranty would have sorted them out. The RP1 uses adhesive pads, not rubber bands, by the way.

I'm glad we're agreed there is an issue with the AT anti skating.
 
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I was somewhat resigned that the AT LP120 would make for a passable turntable for someone new/starting out but I'm not totally convinced. For veteran members here with a lot of tools/aides for checking the alignment, tracking force, speed and anti skate this is old hat. For someone new that in all liklyhood wont have any of these tools/aides and certainly experience I'm wondering what discrepencies or lack of information exsist that will present challanges to a new inexperienced owner. On occasion I would set up vintage/used turntables/install cartridges/minor repairs/adjustments for a local used record store with most being lowfi, decent shape/not trashed and can't remember noticing significant issues with the calibration of the antiskate, tracking etc. It was fun bringing the tables back to life and I didn't get a dime for doing it but the shop treated me right and I always left with a few great records for a nice price.
 
On the AT, its a matter of degrees, calibration thought like any measurement. A 1.5 on a regular machine is a 3 on the AT. a 2.5 is a 5..its just a tool. If you erased the numbers and just used a method to verify anti-skate, the you would see they are irrelevant. So there is no anti-skate issue - the issue is calibration and what people perceive as the norm.

Are you really trying to defend this? The anti-skate barely works and you have to double the force to get it to do anything, that's not a matter of "calibration" that's a matter of bad design. If some newbie reads in his cartridge manual that the tracking force is supposed to be set to 1.5 grams, he's going to turn the dial to 1.5 because that's how people would expect the turntable to work.
 
Let me explain this to you

Are you really trying to defend this? The anti-skate barely works and you have to double the force to get it to do anything, that's not a matter of "calibration" that's a matter of bad design. If some newbie reads in his cartridge manual that the tracking force is supposed to be set to 1.5 grams, he's going to turn the dial to 1.5 because that's how people would expect the turntable to work.

Because you dont get it..there is NOTHING wrong with the anti-skate, its just a matter of scale..

If 0 is 0 grams of force and 10 is 5 grams of force, does it matter if two different tables are labled 0-5 or 0-10 ? No. They still have a finite range.

You just want to argue. Some anti-skates have 3 positions, some have 5 (with 1/2 increments) some have 7 or 8. The one with 78 or 8 doesnt mean it has twice as much force at the one numbered 1 to 3.


Other note - Rega Planar - http://www.bing.com/search?q=rega+planar+motor+issues&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IE10TR

And here is one with a fix for the KNOWN problems
http://lpturntables.blogspot.com/2011/09/tips-on-upgrading-rega-planar-3.html

Pro-ject turntables have motor hum (audible)

Anyway...
 
Because you dont get it..there is NOTHING wrong with the anti-skate, its just a matter of scale..

If 0 is 0 grams of force and 10 is 5 grams of force, does it matter if two different tables are labled 0-5 or 0-10 ? No. They still have a finite range.

You just want to argue. Some anti-skates have 3 positions, some have 5 (with 1/2 increments) some have 7 or 8. The one with 78 or 8 doesnt mean it has twice as much force at the one numbered 1 to 3.

Ok buddy, why don't you go read the manual again. We arn't talking about other turntables, we're talking about this one and what it tells the user to do.

The AT specifically says that the increments on the knob are used to adjust the anti-skate to the same tracking force supplied by the cartridge manufacturer.

To quote directly from the manual;
Verify anti-skate is set for same value as cartridge tracking force

set the anti-skate control knob [Figure 2, page 4, #26] to the same
setting as the tracking force dial. Refer to the specifications section for
tracking force value of the cartridge that shipped with the turntable.

Now keep telling me there's no problem with the anti-skate.
 
Are you really trying to defend this? The anti-skate barely works and you have to double the force to get it to do anything, that's not a matter of "calibration" that's a matter of bad design. If some newbie reads in his cartridge manual that the tracking force is supposed to be set to 1.5 grams, he's going to turn the dial to 1.5 because that's how people would expect the turntable to work.

I'm with you on this one, a little variation of .1 or .2 grams at say, 1.5 is one thing, but more than that is asking for troubles.
 
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Find a 721 and be amazed...LOL..its seriously a very well built beast (aside from the chintzy base most come with...lol)..At least there ARE Dual wood bases out there or it is so dang easy to make your own...
I use an old, very large, console as a hi-fi shelf and there is space for a turntable under a lid, typical of consoles. I could probably fashion a base that slots into it. I was going to do that with my TD-124 but I'm thinking of using a layered birch plywood base with that.
 
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