Attn! All/Any Owners of Tannoy GOLDS 10 inch III LZ

lorne

Sonic Lizard
No ... not the Reds at 4 Ohms. Not the 15-inchers. Not the-12 inchers. I mean the 10 inch GOLD III LZ, 8 ohm drivers that came in a bookshelf-sized, infinite baffle, sealed (except it wasn't) cabinet.

The exact designation is:Tannoy Monitor Gold dual concentric loudspeaker type LSU / HF/ III.LZ / 8

Although there is not much attention given to these drivers, by some informed comment they are the icons, the best of the vintage Tannoy drivers. Apparently fast and responsive they had numerous sterling qualities, some of which belies their more humble appearance — by that I mean that old,stained paper cone you are looking at is not just an old, stained paper cone! Casting and machining is superb. They may not deliver the earthquaking base like the 15's, but they have something the 12's and 15's don't — apparently.

I have owned a pair for years. I used them for years. But I suspected that the small cabinets — described by one commentator as the very smallest they could possibly use for this driver — was not adequately big enough. The last time we moved house I gutted the aprox. 38 Litre boxes and disposed of them.
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YES, PEOPLE HAVE WORKED ON THESE BABIES

One technically gifted enthusiast built a vastly modified version — going so far as to treat the paper with chemicals so as to change the resonant frequency and modify the X-over to match. From this he calculated an optimum volume.

Another dude on the Tannoy Yahoo group came up with a larger, ported cabinet. Still another produced an attractive infinite baffle type and illustrated his admirable work very nicely. He also modified the X-over!

I am curious about what can be done to rehouse the basically stock driver and X-over. I suspect that the open baffle idea is not very practical, and I am not that keen on re-engineering the X-overs. I used stock values when I refurbished mine years ago; I replaced E-caps with film types.

Casting ahead — I am thinking of a sealed (infinite baffle) cabinet of about 80 litres using reinforced plywood or laminated plank — or a hybrid of both. It would be braced inside with three bullheads — below the bottom one would be sanitized sand. Perhaps on some soft wheels, because in my experience these drivers like to be moved around to accommodate varying sources.

ANYONE in the know about ANYTHING please jump in. Yea, uh-huh — I know that Tannoy is talked on this that or the other forum. Rarely they may get started on the 10 inch Golds, but by the fourth post the thread is typically swerving towards discussions about the 12's and 15's.

One last thing: I have done a LOT of searching the net in regards to the III LZ over the years. Way back, I wrote to Tannoy itself and received a very kind, considered, hand-written letter, as well as a photocopy of the original cabinet plans and an x-over schematic. Still, to this day, I am keen to know what we can do to house the III /LZ /8 in a larger cabinet. What size? What volume? What dimensions? Were the plywood boxes that were put together to house these things by so many proprietors really the last word? I doubt it, even though I do not understand most of the engineering details and perimeters that are used to determine answers to such questions

Compared to the elaborate furniture that housed the other, vintage Tannoy drivers — including the 10 inch reds of the Coronetta, the III LZ was Cinderella not even dressed for the ball.

Any III LZ lovers out there? Let's go!

Lorne
 
Hi it's been three years, would like to know any update 'cause I'm considering buying a used pair in my place...
 
> travellersol: Hi it's been three years, would like to know any update 'cause I'm considering buying a used pair in my place.

Yep ... and I am still hoping for anyone jumping in here.
 
I've been searching the web for a very similar project I've been contemplating for just a few months now and came upon your lonely post and had to at least share my thoughts and experiences.

First, I'm going to be working with a pair of HPD 295's currently in flawless, walnut original Eaton cabs. As you likely know, the HPD's are very close cousins to the MG's . Although my Eatons sound quite nice (listening to them as I write), I believe there's a lot of untapped potential. And this belief was reinforced after comparing them to my primary room speakers... HPD 315's in custom 150 liter ported cabs I built last year.

This difference was dramatic and profound -- the Eatons sounded small, boxed in, and un-involving compared to bigger brother. And no it wasn't really at all about the LF response, it was the entire sound presentation.

So, although I could just build a smaller version of my primary speakers, there are two other approaches that interest me. One is a variation on the GFR (non-corner) cabinet with rear loaded horn. The other is quite different and it's based on A23's Solovox modified open baffle design.

Of course the Solovox idea has the greatest risk because many argue the speaker is designed for an enclosure. But after reading the Six Moons review of the Solovox over and over, I think I'm going to roll the dice and find out for myself if the attributes found in the Solovox can be not only matched, but that just maybe a 10" DC design could offer superior bass and treble response to their single driver.

So I'm curious to hear where your search for insights has brought you over these past three years?
 
II think I'm going to roll the dice and find out for myself if the attributes found in the Solovox can be not only matched, but that just maybe a 10" DC design could offer superior bass and treble response to their single driver.

So I'm curious to hear where your search for insights has brought you over these past three years?
Thanks for your posting. It has really moved me to some new thinking. Many years ago I heard some open baffle speakers being demonstrated using a rotation of low power tube amplifiers. I was stunned at the realism — in particular, a live recording of Billy Holiday (on vinyl) recorded in a night club. With broad daylight streaming into a cluttered workshop, a half dozen of us were transported to a smokey nightclub with tinkling glasses and background chatter at an adjacent table. It was a unique experience.

I cannot remember what speakers they actually were, but a lot of stuff in the room had come from salvaged American cinema — Western Electric and so on. I do remember that the open baffle assembly was just an unpainted plywood knock-up that made no pretence to finish. And if memory serves me, it was no more than the simplest way to mount the single, full-range driver.

Well, I don't expect to match that icon; the workshop belonged to to a professional master of the art in the Japanese way of audio. (This experience was here in Sendai, and alas the workshop is no more.) But, your post has really got me thinking about open baffle for the III LZ. Here is why:

I have been revising my plans for this project anyway, but it always gets pushed aside for all sorts of reasons — re-boxing the III LZ. I've been see-sawing over how to do it for years. Commensurate with my level of competence, I gave up the idea of modifying the crossover. I'll just rebuild it with good stuff. Also, after reading around and around, I fell into cautionary mode and ditched the plan to vastly increase the cabinets' volume. One impressive authority advised that increased volume for any specific driver should range around 15%. I planned to risk 20%.

My doubting didn't stop there: if the speaker was designed for infinite baffle/ sealed cabinet what would I need to know in order to successfully create a larger, ported box? And then there was the carpentry and a whole host of other issues. I am a feeble woodworker.

I think even I can build an open baffle. But what would be suitable dimensions? Perhaps by using the photos of the Solovox 8" solution, one could scale up slightly to mount the 10 inch III LZ. I think my baffle project would be cruder and less attractive, but I'd love to hear what the these speakers can do in this mode — especially as I am wanting to finish off my Dynaco ST-70 rebuild. And if the project disappoints, I will not be left with 200 pounds of redundant material.

Cheers, and keep us Tannoy people posted ...L.
 
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Thank you for the prompt reply and for sharing your thoughts. I have found great inspiration by learning more and more about Asian and particularly Japanese audio listening philosophies. I consider reviewer Jeff Day to be my mentor and he considers Yazaki-san from SPEC Real Sound to be his. You can learn more about both gentlemen by visiting jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com where there are many years of Jeff's blog documenting his adventures in audio.

As you described your previous experience with WE open baffle listening, I envied you that opportunity. One would think those US made products would be in ample supply here but as legend has it only the Japanese first appreciated that technology. Apparently we thought it was just old junk!

Before I built my large cabinets, I tested the speakers by themselves on the floor but found them most lacking. I guess the easiest option to test would be to cut an appropriate sized hole in a sheet of plywood and let it rip. But of course crossovers would likely be quite unsuited for that use making any listening irrelevant. I'm going to reach out to my Mainly Tannoy guy in London to see if he's ever built crossovers for open baffle or Sonovox.

One thing I find encouraging about the Sonovox is that it might provide enough "loading" or back pressure to control cone excursions and bass response. I guess we'll only know that answer by building a pair!

Please keep me posted if you pull the switch and start building! My direct email is dennisvoss5513atgmail.com
 
Answer to vinylgeek:
Thanks very much for you reply. You brought up a couple of issues that had me wondering ... most salient being the issue of the cross-over. I hope to learn more — even much more — so I will be looking out for any results of your search for information.

You wrote:
As you described your previous experience with WE open baffle listening, I envied you that opportunity. One would think those US made products would be in ample supply here but as legend has it only the Japanese first appreciated that technology. Apparently we thought it was just old junk!

Some of the Japanese old-school builders were so impressed by the classic WE staff that there was a sub-industry of stripping out the solid core wire as old cinemas were either renovated for THX etc or demolished. This fabric insulated wired was recycled and used in the construction of tube amp projects. This is / was not a rumour. I saw the wire and the projects.

Anyway, that's an aside. I won't have the time to get to this project for some time. In the meantime, I'll be learning thinking and planning and PMing you to stay in touch. Best .... L.
 
On the topic of WE wire, are you familiar with Duelund in Denmark? They currently manufacture an entire line of oil impregnated cotton zinc coated pure copper wire that by all reports exceeds the wonderful performance of even vintage WE wire? Very reasonably priced too! I've been using it throughout my system (speaker wire, power cords and interconnects) and just love it

Enjoy your search and I look forward to keeping in touch!

Denny
 
It has been awhile, but some of you were interested in what I might do to rebox my III LZ's. I've been thinking and have continued to search for clues as to what I'll do.

I have told myself that Tannoy specifically designed the III LZ to be enclosed as a bookshelf speaker. Very ambitious attempts to re-employ these drivers have been done by people much more adept than I. Apparently they have succeeded in making excellent improvements, and you can find their projects here:

Mr Troels Gravesend:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Tannoy_IIILZ.htm

Mr Karl Boyle

https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy116.htm

My knowledge and skill is limited compared to these gentlemen, so my plans are more conservative and pedestrian:

(1)
An increase in enclosure volume by approximately 20%. The original cabinet design was (from memory) 48 Litres. I'll aim for approximately 57-58 Litres.

(2)
Dimensions: H: 75cm / 29.5" W: 35cm / 13.7" D: 22cm / 8.6"

(3)
Enclosure material: laminated wood plank. I dunno the wood type, but it is in the Japanese DIY stores, and I can have it cut to size there. At least I know that it's straight and cured.

(4)
X-0vers: A rebuild of the stock unit with the rotary 'energy' and 'roll-off' switches wired out of circuit. They will be mounted externally, possibly on a new board with point to point wiring.

More: I may incorporate a sub-compartment in the enclosure that will be filled with sterilized sand. And maybe the bottom plate will have small rubber castors fitted so the speakers can be moved around on my pinewood floor. I've found that my current speakers like to be in slightly different places in my small listening room depending on what source I am using. (I can't explain it ... just is :))
 
It’s been a few years so perhaps my update is no longer of interest but…we shall see

I’ve started construction of “Japanese Cornetta” cabinets based on the plans contained in the 1976 issue of Stereo Sound magazine, a Japanese publication. Originally I thought I’d use a pair of HPD 295 A drivers, but my friend Yazaki-san convinced me that 3LZ Monitor Golds would offer significant sound quality improvements, so I now have a pair ready to install.

This build, with its front loaded horn, will certainly be my most challenging woodworking project yet. But if everything I’ve read about these cabinets proves to be true, it will be totally worth it.
 
Here they are and the sound is wonderful!!

What an amazing build, looks gorgeous - huge congratulations! I have just bought a paid of III LZs and am also looking to build Japanese Cornettas as you have. Do you have any plans for these?? Did you do anything with the crossovers? I don't know much at all about sound but I am a relatively experienced woodworker (I recently built some horn-loaded Lowther Acoustas) and this sounds like a lot of fun! Would love it if you could share any tips or suggestions that you have learnt from your build..
 
The plans for the Japanese Cornetta can now be found on Hans Hilberink’s site. The crossovers follow the factory design but with PIO caps and new components. Please feel free to contact me directly for direct help. Dennisvoss5513 at gmail. I’m also working on an in depth article for Positive Feedback on the build that should be published within the next 30 days.
 

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I owned a pair of factory Granada speakers with 10” golds. Other than demonstrating them, I never really used them. Fast forward a few years, at a friends house we got talking about his large speakers (2’x2’x2’ or possibly a bit larger). They had 10” Golds inside. I would never have imagined that his had the same drivers as mine. Spectacular sound from them. Mine were only “nice enough”. What a difference a box makes.

billiam
 
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