AU-777 / Special 5.00 half price
- Thread starter gyusher
- Start date
Morden2004
Relaxin'
AU-777 is 30 watts RMS per ch.
Paul
Paul
Morden2004
Relaxin'
My experience with Sansui is limited to one amp and about 4 weeks. I have an AU-999 and a TU-999.
I can tell you from my limited experience that Sansui seems to sound much louder that most of the other equipment I have owned and all were modestly powered. The AU-999 is around 70 watts/ch and sounds like 200 thru my Sansui SP-X6900's.
And, our first reaction to hearing the Sansui's after years of plastic music was
:jawdrop:
It was totally awesome.
Paul
I can tell you from my limited experience that Sansui seems to sound much louder that most of the other equipment I have owned and all were modestly powered. The AU-999 is around 70 watts/ch and sounds like 200 thru my Sansui SP-X6900's.
And, our first reaction to hearing the Sansui's after years of plastic music was
:jawdrop:
It was totally awesome.
Paul
BeatleFred
Super Member
Not to imply that any of these Sansui models are lacking in Power, but you gentlemen seem to be under the false impression that Power and Volume level have a linear relationship- and the fact is-> they dont. What is meant by the term 'linear' in this case is the false assumption that a 100W amp sounds twice as loud as a 50W amp, and a 200W amp sounds 4x as loud as 50W amp...and so forth. In actuality, in order for your ears to perceive a doubling in volume level, you'd need amp that was 10X more powerful, thus, replacing a 50W amp with a 500W amp.
It is not accurate to say that an amp (receiver) is very Powerful simply because you observe that when the Volume is turned up only a little-ways from zero, that the music youre hearing is already very Loud. For one thing, how can two people who own the same model amp/receiver make an accurate comparison if they both are listening to two totally different speakers? -> and one speaker is more Efficient than the other. (as well as taking into account the size of your listening room, how far away from the speakers youre listening, and the dynamic range of the music itself, all of which are contributing factors) Most Sansui speakers that I know of are very efficient- which means they do not require much amplifier/rcvr power in order for the music to be heard Loud, and there are other brand speakers like that also such as the Infinity SM models- which I have mentioned on AK before.
I have also previously mentioned on AK (check the Archived messages) about the Sansui CA-3000 preamp and AU-20000 integrated amp. Look closely at the numbers around the volume control- the Sansui AU-20000 is a 170 WATT amp- yet to hear the music Loud, you usually have to turn the Volume control up higher- because the numbered volume increments around the dial is 3DB all the way from start to finish- as opposed to most other Sansui models- AU-717, 919 etc..... where the volume increments have a higher initial rate of increase, thus -33DB on an AU-717 is at approx the 10:00 postion on the dial, whereas on the AU-20000 or CA-3000, you have to turn it up higher to approx the 12:00 noon position to get at -33DB, see what I'm saying?
The 'jet plane' analogy is a good one to describe the logarithmic nature of human hearing (as opposed to linear nature). Imagine yourself standing next to a jumbo jet on a runway that has a measured sound level of 130DB (which is about the same DB level as a very loud rock concert or a "nice" jackhammer busting thru concrete). Now, imagine if a 2nd jumbo jet were to pull alongside the first one..... what would the total DB level as perceived by your ears be? The answer is not linear (130+ 130= 260DB). The answer is 133DB. Two jet planes produce (are heard by the ears as) just 3DB more than one jet plane by itself- the logarithmic nature of human hearing is Mother Nature's way of protecting out eardrums from being blown out- which a linear 260DB would surely cause!
As for the term 'dynamic range' - rather than techncially-worded mumbo jumbo, again- analogies are best used to explain concepts. Our ears can hear a wide dynamic range- from the buzzing of a mosquito close to the threshold of hearing to a Loud crash of thunder at the opposite end of the spectrum, or replace the levels in each case with another example- a soft whisper to a loud scream of someone's voice. And what might be an example of limited dynamic range?- well, a musical instrument like a harp - regardless of whether you pluck the harp lightly or more vigorously, the resulting change in volume level is not much different, comprende' ?
B/F
It is not accurate to say that an amp (receiver) is very Powerful simply because you observe that when the Volume is turned up only a little-ways from zero, that the music youre hearing is already very Loud. For one thing, how can two people who own the same model amp/receiver make an accurate comparison if they both are listening to two totally different speakers? -> and one speaker is more Efficient than the other. (as well as taking into account the size of your listening room, how far away from the speakers youre listening, and the dynamic range of the music itself, all of which are contributing factors) Most Sansui speakers that I know of are very efficient- which means they do not require much amplifier/rcvr power in order for the music to be heard Loud, and there are other brand speakers like that also such as the Infinity SM models- which I have mentioned on AK before.
I have also previously mentioned on AK (check the Archived messages) about the Sansui CA-3000 preamp and AU-20000 integrated amp. Look closely at the numbers around the volume control- the Sansui AU-20000 is a 170 WATT amp- yet to hear the music Loud, you usually have to turn the Volume control up higher- because the numbered volume increments around the dial is 3DB all the way from start to finish- as opposed to most other Sansui models- AU-717, 919 etc..... where the volume increments have a higher initial rate of increase, thus -33DB on an AU-717 is at approx the 10:00 postion on the dial, whereas on the AU-20000 or CA-3000, you have to turn it up higher to approx the 12:00 noon position to get at -33DB, see what I'm saying?
The 'jet plane' analogy is a good one to describe the logarithmic nature of human hearing (as opposed to linear nature). Imagine yourself standing next to a jumbo jet on a runway that has a measured sound level of 130DB (which is about the same DB level as a very loud rock concert or a "nice" jackhammer busting thru concrete). Now, imagine if a 2nd jumbo jet were to pull alongside the first one..... what would the total DB level as perceived by your ears be? The answer is not linear (130+ 130= 260DB). The answer is 133DB. Two jet planes produce (are heard by the ears as) just 3DB more than one jet plane by itself- the logarithmic nature of human hearing is Mother Nature's way of protecting out eardrums from being blown out- which a linear 260DB would surely cause!
As for the term 'dynamic range' - rather than techncially-worded mumbo jumbo, again- analogies are best used to explain concepts. Our ears can hear a wide dynamic range- from the buzzing of a mosquito close to the threshold of hearing to a Loud crash of thunder at the opposite end of the spectrum, or replace the levels in each case with another example- a soft whisper to a loud scream of someone's voice. And what might be an example of limited dynamic range?- well, a musical instrument like a harp - regardless of whether you pluck the harp lightly or more vigorously, the resulting change in volume level is not much different, comprende' ?
B/F
Morden2004
Relaxin'
B/F
I stand chided - standing, face turned towards the left speaker, I am looking down at my writhing hands. I am embarrassed.
I was way too cavalier with my euphoric rendition of my reactions to hearing my AU-999 reproduce un-plastic-like sound after 20+ years of plastic music. Just where was my engineering background when I ranted off like that?
What I should have said is that my initial non-scientific listening tests seemed to indicate a somewhat larger SPL being generated by my non-reference, un-calibrated, Sansui transducers and seemed to have (yet again, a completely subjective analysis using my twin un-balanced aural receptors) a much wider sound stage and a linen-like quality that was much smoother than my previous listening experiences - qualified by the very 'bright' and un-damped listening area that has significant back-wave reflections due to the concrete walls and contains a large even harmonic component which messes with the clarity of the initial wave front.
Oh, and of course, the disco music LP’s I was using for the tests are so tasteless as to be totally bogus when used as a sound source for a double-blind listening tests.
In my defense I can only suggest that it comes from reading too many reviews in those wonderful 70’s and 80’s stereo magazines.
And, BTW, I am aware of the differences between linear potentiometers and logarithmic potentiometers. The cheaper plastic-fronted "audio" equipment tends to use the less expensive linear vs. the more correct logarithmic versions of a volume (oops, sorry…) level control. More to the point, though, I have equipment with logarithmic pots but linear numbering. What was the designer’s thinking here? Doesn’t anybody speak decibels any more?
..................... I’m playing with you here
- so don't flame me. I think Gyusher and I were just relating a childlike impression of our happiness at the beauty of vintage SS equipment and our amazement at having forgotten how good this stuff really sounds. Right, Gyusher?
Have a happy November 1st!
I stand chided - standing, face turned towards the left speaker, I am looking down at my writhing hands. I am embarrassed.
I was way too cavalier with my euphoric rendition of my reactions to hearing my AU-999 reproduce un-plastic-like sound after 20+ years of plastic music. Just where was my engineering background when I ranted off like that?
What I should have said is that my initial non-scientific listening tests seemed to indicate a somewhat larger SPL being generated by my non-reference, un-calibrated, Sansui transducers and seemed to have (yet again, a completely subjective analysis using my twin un-balanced aural receptors) a much wider sound stage and a linen-like quality that was much smoother than my previous listening experiences - qualified by the very 'bright' and un-damped listening area that has significant back-wave reflections due to the concrete walls and contains a large even harmonic component which messes with the clarity of the initial wave front.
Oh, and of course, the disco music LP’s I was using for the tests are so tasteless as to be totally bogus when used as a sound source for a double-blind listening tests.
In my defense I can only suggest that it comes from reading too many reviews in those wonderful 70’s and 80’s stereo magazines.
And, BTW, I am aware of the differences between linear potentiometers and logarithmic potentiometers. The cheaper plastic-fronted "audio" equipment tends to use the less expensive linear vs. the more correct logarithmic versions of a volume (oops, sorry…) level control. More to the point, though, I have equipment with logarithmic pots but linear numbering. What was the designer’s thinking here? Doesn’t anybody speak decibels any more?
..................... I’m playing with you here
- so don't flame me. I think Gyusher and I were just relating a childlike impression of our happiness at the beauty of vintage SS equipment and our amazement at having forgotten how good this stuff really sounds. Right, Gyusher?
Have a happy November 1st!
Volume level
When I talk about an amp sounding more powerful I dont care or even know where the volume level is as most times the position is meaningless anyway. I am refering to the depth and nature of the sound at moderate listening levels. I could care less where the knob is. I have some amps that sound thin and for lack of a better term less powerful than others.
I realise that 3db is doubling the SPL and this doubling is perceived as just barely noticable but it takes 10 times the amplifier power, some will argue with that even. . .Since most of my listening is at a level of less than 1 watt anyway I could care less how powerful the amp is as long as I like the sound of it and it meets my needs. I would just as soon they did away with power ratings anyway and concentrated on just what it sounds like. If the amp doesnt sound right to me I dont want it. . .1 watt or 1000 watts.
When I talk about an amp sounding more powerful I dont care or even know where the volume level is as most times the position is meaningless anyway. I am refering to the depth and nature of the sound at moderate listening levels. I could care less where the knob is. I have some amps that sound thin and for lack of a better term less powerful than others.
I realise that 3db is doubling the SPL and this doubling is perceived as just barely noticable but it takes 10 times the amplifier power, some will argue with that even. . .Since most of my listening is at a level of less than 1 watt anyway I could care less how powerful the amp is as long as I like the sound of it and it meets my needs. I would just as soon they did away with power ratings anyway and concentrated on just what it sounds like. If the amp doesnt sound right to me I dont want it. . .1 watt or 1000 watts.
B3Nut
tubes and spinny things!
Any volume control on any piece of equipment is going to be a log-taper pot. Linear pots just don't work right. Cost is pretty much the same either way, too.
If an amp doesn't sound "right" it either (a) is not stable into the load it's driving, (b) incapable of meeting basic hi-fi specs or (c) broken and needs to be sent to EchoWars post-haste.
TP
If an amp doesn't sound "right" it either (a) is not stable into the load it's driving, (b) incapable of meeting basic hi-fi specs or (c) broken and needs to be sent to EchoWars post-haste.
TP
BeatleFred
Super Member
Hi Paul:
Well, there's no need to feel ashamed on my account I just wanted to point out some of the things that I wrote in the previous message so that some other readers who might read it, and were werent aware of these concepts before, might atleast have a somewhat clearer understanding of it now.
Regards,
B/F
Well, there's no need to feel ashamed on my account
I just wanted to point out some of the things that I wrote in the previous message so that some other readers who might read it, and were werent aware of these concepts before, might atleast have a somewhat clearer understanding of it now.Regards,
B/F
