Audio from Windows PC, i'm not sure what i'm looking for...

1984_C10

Active Member
For quite a while i've been trying to extract decent audio from my PC in order to listen my lossless files and Tidal.
The machine itself is not so fancy, i built it myself and the basic configuration goes like this:
Motherboard: ASRock B85 Killer (with ASRock's "Purity Audio" tweeked Realtek ALC1150 codec and Toslink jack for DTS Connect up to 5.1 channels)
CPU: Xeon E3-1220V3
GPU: Nvidia GTX 970

Thing is, i'm going to update my aging receiver (Denon AVR-1602), but i'm not sure how i should extract audio from this machine. I tried 3 different methods in the past, the first was a P2 to RCA stereo, but that has proved to be terrible, the Toslink connection wasn't much better, and the last was to set the video card to reproduce sound via HDMI to my TV and then use the Toslink on the TV to connect in the receiver (still in use, average quality and buggy as hell).
None of those methods has proved to be the best.
I was thinking about getting a Cambridge DACMagic Plus or something similar in order to get audio from the PC via USB, but i never tested USB audio before.
Surround sound (5.1) loss is not an issue, since my system in only stereo.
 
For quite a while i've been trying to extract decent audio from my PC in order to listen my lossless files and Tidal.
The machine itself is not so fancy, i built it myself and the basic configuration goes like this:
Motherboard: ASRock B85 Killer (with ASRock's "Purity Audio" tweeked Realtek ALC1150 codec and Toslink jack for DTS Connect up to 5.1 channels)
CPU: Xeon E3-1220V3
GPU: Nvidia GTX 970

Thing is, i'm going to update my aging receiver (Denon AVR-1602), but i'm not sure how i should extract audio from this machine. I tried 3 different methods in the past, the first was a P2 to RCA stereo, but that has proved to be terrible, the Toslink connection wasn't much better, and the last was to set the video card to reproduce sound via HDMI to my TV and then use the Toslink on the TV to connect in the receiver (still in use, average quality and buggy as hell).
None of those methods has proved to be the best.
I was thinking about getting a Cambridge DACMagic Plus or something similar in order to get audio from the PC via USB, but i never tested USB audio before.
Surround sound (5.1) loss is not an issue, since my system in only stereo.
In all honesty... the output of the ALC1150 codec on your main board routed to your receiver via plain ole' RCA cabling is more than enough. There's really nothing that DACMagic or any other DAC will do with the the zeroes and one's above and beyond time correction ('jitter') via its onboard chip. I understand the basic concept behind the transmission process and have told several peers to stop wasting their time and money attempting to create an experience which doesn't exist. The rendered output is the same 20 Hz to 20 kHz of cyclic waves no matter what you run them out of. If you insist upon having a DAC, grab a ~$100 Audioquest or Schiit USB-based board, plug it into an available USB port, make the appropriate volume adjustments in Windows and your software player, and call it a day. Good luck.
 
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Well as you have read from KDAC, your setup is already the best you can possibly do, and since the results were terrible, you might as well give up now and save for a cd player and stream Tidal from your phone. After all nothing magical about a DAC..

Or you can see it as simply one man's opinion who means well trying to save you money. In that case you could get a external DAC to try out for yourself. The one I use makes a nice improvement and you can try it out for a couple weeks and if you don't like it, send it back for a refund. Schiit Modi would be worth a shot..
 
1984_C10: P2??? And from your post it would also seem a bit unclear, what your actual problems were with the three methods. I.e., did you rather experience real quirks like for example drop-outs or bad distortion or hum - or rather just somewhat lackluster sound quality?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Sorry guys, i failed to mention that the old Denon is going out, i'll be upgrading it in a few months. I'm not sure which amp i will pick-up, maybe i'll be taking a Cambridge CXA60 or something similar.
Yesterday i was taking a look at the DAC Alobar mentioned, the Schiit Modi. Thing is, where i live, the Schiit Modi 2 costs as much Musical Fidelity V90-DAC , but Cambridge DacMagic Plus costs just a tick more. And the DacMagic offers me the interesting option to use it is a desk mounted headphone amp, since i game on the PC at night and and i have to use a extension cord to use my headphone on the receiver.
But if you guys think its not a worthy option, i'm sure we can come up with a solution.
 
1984_C10: P2??? And from your post it would also seem a bit unclear, what your actual problems were with the three methods. I.e., did you rather experience real quirks like for example drop-outs or bad distortion or hum - or rather just somewhat lackluster sound quality?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Yes, "P2" as in 3.5mm headphone jack to standard RCA conversion cable, its a misnomer that i ended up using, sorry for that.
As for the quality, there's no hum or hiss, but the sounds come a bit flat, with some detail loss.
 
In all honesty... the output of the ALC1150 codec on your main board routed to your receiver via plain ole' RCA cabling is more than enough. There's really nothing that DACMagic or any other DAC will do with the the zeroes and one's above and beyond time correction ('jitter') via its onboard chip. I understand the basic concept behind the transmission process and have told several peers to stop wasting their time and money attempting to create an experience which doesn't exist. The rendered output is the same 20 Hz to 20 kHz of cyclic waves no matter what you run them out of. If you insist upon having a DAC, grab a ~$100 Audioquest or Schiit USB-based board, plug it into an available USB port, make the appropriate volume adjustments in Windows and your software player, and call it a day. Good luck.

So, i should try using the 3.5mm jack on the mainboard once again? Maybe with some higher quality cables?
 
The best thing you can do right now is to put a DAC on your system. I really like the M2tech hiface.

So it will be something like this.

PC-->DAC(USB)--->AMP.
 
So, i should try using the 3.5mm jack on the mainboard once again? Maybe with some higher quality cables?
In my opinion, yes - with a "high quality" oxygen-free copper y-cable costing you no more than $10 out-of-pocket. Shieded copper is shielded copper. Realtek themselves state that both the ADC and DAC support 16/20/24-bit depths and 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rates with and upwards of 115 dB SNR depending upon two-channel or 7.1-channel surround modes. The modernity of the chip and its output simply do not warrant additional hardware. As long as they've been "in the game" of PC audio, I seriously doubt if the engineers at Realtek have any rational reason to distort or outright lie about the performance of its products. Unless you plan on having consistent rock concert level playback in your listening space, the output from your motherboard is more than adequate. Source: http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=328.

Earlier this year, I found myself a little bit overzealous and somewhat emotional when allowing myself to get caught up in the the sheer hype of using an external DAC, USB or otherwise, in regard to music playback via a PC/NAS. I admit that I allowed hearsay via Stereophile/What HiFi/et al. to sway normally rational decision making on my part. In my case, I went around like somewhat of a loon praising the Audioquest DragonFly v1.2 USB DAC to high heaven before realizing that the only occurrence that took my system over the top in my current listening space was the transition from a Denon NR1402 Marantz-branded 50 watt per channel integrated receiver to a B&K 125 watt per channel power amp paired with a separate B&K preamp. The extra power and dynamic headroom the amp provides is what made my PC-based system sound subjectively great. In reality, the DragonFly had very little to do with it, as there was no audible distortion to me and several acquaintances with nearly perfect hearing during playback.

The Shannon-Nyquist theorem has more than proven that 16-bit/44.1 kHz is undeniably efficient in reproducing sound perceivable to the human ear up to 22.05 kHz. Attempting to persuade the audio consumer that "something is missing" if they don't load up a hard drive/device with 24-bit/192 kHz files is shady at best, if not outright fraud. You can't hear what's not there... if it's actually not there. Everything else is marketing bullshit.

The intent of my comment is not to tell you what to do, it's merely offered to assist you and any other AK'er in saving money and let someone else be victimized by audiophilia.
 
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(...) but the sounds come a bit flat, with some detail loss. (...)

And how would you rate/grade these impressions in terms of absolute significance/amount? I.e., where would you put these on a scale from "more subtle" (like one decent CD player va. another) over "more significant" (like one decent speaker, headphone or phono cartridge model against another) to "in a different league" (like CD vs. AM radio quality)?

Because at least on the playback side a decent HDA onboard audio implementation should nowdays sound about as good as an entry-level CD player from one of the major audio brands (e.g. Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha, Teac...) - and unless the 3,5 mm stereo to 2x RCA would be all too long or badly made, it should also just have a very subtle influence. So, in case you'd perceive a more significant drop compared to CD quality level, a configuration problem (like for example some active software equalisation hidden in some control panel you haven't yet descovered) would seem pretty likely.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
A couple of years ago Tom's Hardware did tests of several onboard audio chips and compared them against a few high-end external offerings as well. The Realtek onboard audio did surprising well. I've been using various Denon A/V receivers (currently have a AVR 2805 in use) with no complaints. My personal favorite is an Asus Xonar D2X audio card ($50 & up used on Ebay) running analog in and out from the PC and receiver. How well does this work? It's my go-to for doing audio production work for myself as well as customers that include two record companies and a university. I have 5 A/V production PC's with D2X's in them. I use the aftermarket Uni drivers with them.
 
This pc to dac to receiver? I have a schiit modi, and delayed actually putting it into the system, time....time...
Anyway, using the PC to initially send online music to a receiver thru a dac from say Discogs which sometimes has an album available will this provide decent sound? or is the Discogs and other sites limited??
 
Chromecast Audio ($35) and Hi-Fi Cast (Free or $1.99 for ad free version) work perfectly fro what you want to do. It maxes out at 24/96, but so does Chromecast Audio for now, so I can live with that.
 
Chromecast Audio ($35) and Hi-Fi Cast (Free or $1.99 for ad free version) work perfectly fro what you want to do. It maxes out at 24/96, but so does Chromecast Audio for now, so I can live with that.
Not sure this is what i was asking for.
Normally i use Tidal Hi-Fi with my PC connected to my receiver, but anyways, i'm using a standard RCA now, works fine, maybe i'll pick up a standard USB DAC in the future, once i update my amp.
 
Not sure this is what i was asking for.
Normally i use Tidal Hi-Fi with my PC connected to my receiver, but anyways, i'm using a standard RCA now, works fine, maybe i'll pick up a standard USB DAC in the future, once i update my amp.
That's how everyone did it many years ago. I find using wires to connect a PC to your stereo dated and extremely awkward to use. I use my phone to select music, pause, play, control volume etc, but to each his own. The DAC in the Chromecast Audio sounds fantastic in my system. I listen almost exclusively to 24 bit hi res files, and am considering giving up my Tidal sybscription because I use it so infrequently.
 
That's how everyone did it many years ago. I find using wires to connect a PC to your stereo dated and extremely awkward to use. I use my phone to select music, pause, play, control volume etc, but to each his own. The DAC in the Chromecast Audio sounds fantastic in my system. I listen almost exclusively to 24 bit hi res files, and am considering giving up my Tidal sybscription because I use it so infrequently.
The idea is good, no doubt i will embrace it, but i don't think you get my point, the machine is not used exclusively for music, i also game and work on it and i would like to use the same audio setup for such.
 
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