Audio misconceptions that stuck with you

[House de Kris]

Would you mind explaining phase shift in an electronic crossover then?

Sorry for the long delay, no Internet on the weekends. As commented by Nikko75, they are the same. It is a law of physics. Now, you can follow either the lo-pass or hi-pass elements with an all-pass filter, which is a phase compensator, as suggested by Nikko75. In my own experience, I've never encountered an analog crossover with all-pass filters inside. My experience doesn't define the industry, though. So, if Nikko75 could share the names of a few analog crossovers that don't have phase shift, this would be most interesting to me.

My own personal experience is limited to (for vintage) SAE 4000, Sumo Delilah, (and newer) dbx 223, DOD 835, DOD 835II, BSS FDS-318, and Peavey PV35XO. All of these exhibit the classic phase shift you'd expect from passive crossovers.

Also, I've only heard of one digital crossover without phase shift, but have zero personal experience with it.

So, perhaps my own misconception is that no company has ever bothered to compensate the phase shift. I'd love to have this be a misconception on my part.

 

[audiodon]

LS3/5As have a phase compensation network as part of the crossover. Each pair was supposedly tested for this very thing as part of their final QC. Just one of the reasons why they still command the kind of money they do.

Other crossovers don't do that exact phase compensation, but careful vendors design their crossovers so that the lead/lag of the components about match. In a three way, the mid is usually reversed compared to the others because low-to-mid is typically much greater than 90 degrees out of phase, and the same for the mid-to-highs. My Spendor BC1s are that way. Others have used time alignment by lining up the drivers so the magnets are in a straight vertical line, like KEF 105s and 107s. That's not exactly for phase compensation, but for arrival time, but they're related.

 

[jn229]

When buying my first system, the sales woman told me; Chicks dig men with big speakers. She was selling Klipsch.

 

[Echosphere]

I always heard music sounds better while drinking beer.

I've told a few friends in audio showrooms that when they have a "showing" just get a one day liquor license and have some free wine and cheese for the event.

Just look at art gallery showings. They know they the score. Get a few glasses of wine, introduce them to the artist... Sold.

 

[kevzep]

Sorry for the long delay, no Internet on the weekends. As commented by Nikko75, they are the same. It is a law of physics. Now, you can follow either the lo-pass or hi-pass elements with an all-pass filter, which is a phase compensator, as suggested by Nikko75. In my own experience, I've never encountered an analog crossover with all-pass filters inside. My experience doesn't define the industry, though. So, if Nikko75 could share the names of a few analog crossovers that don't have phase shift, this would be most interesting to me.

My own personal experience is limited to (for vintage) SAE 4000, Sumo Delilah, (and newer) dbx 223, DOD 835, DOD 835II, BSS FDS-318, and Peavey PV35XO. All of these exhibit the classic phase shift you'd expect from passive crossovers.

Also, I've only heard of one digital crossover without phase shift, but have zero personal experience with it.

So, perhaps my own misconception is that no company has ever bothered to compensate the phase shift. I'd love to have this be a misconception on my part.

There is only one crossover/processor which exhibits 0 degrees phase shift at the crossover point, which is the Dolby Lake processor, L'acoustics own branded amplifiers the LA8 and LA4 (made by the german camco amplifier manufacturer) which have onboard digital processing also have what they call the FIR filter which is a linear phase crossover filter.
Other than that introducing a filter Linkwitz Riley, Butterworth, Besslle, will introduce phase shift, laws of physics at work Im afraid...............
I use these units almost daily, Im very familiar with them, and I can tell you, having no phase shift from the crossover filters completely changes the behaviour and sound of the system we use, it is simply stunning.
Its like listening to the best pair of headphones you can imagine, except it is a really big PA system outside!!
Hope this helps...............

 

[Bob_in_OKC]

When buying my first system, the sales woman told me; Chicks dig men with big speakers. She was selling Klipsch.

I assume she was funnin' you? i. e. pullin' your leg?

 

[TerryO]

When buying my first system, the sales woman told me; Chicks dig men with big speakers. She was selling Klipsch.

I totally believe this to be true, at least until you return from the honeymoon.

"Misery, thy name is Woman!"
:tears:

Best Regards,
TerryO

 

[JonL]

When buying my first system, the sales woman told me; Chicks dig men with big speakers. She was selling Klipsch.

NOT a misconception.

 

[chadnliz]

NOT a misconception.

Complete BS lol................have you seen a large group of audiophiles? Some couldnt get laid on a bet with a credit card in a whore house full of blind nymphos.

 

[JonL]

Complete BS lol................have you seen a large group of audiophiles? Some couldnt get laid on a bet with a credit card in a whore house full of blind nymphos.

That's 'cause they've all got some wimpy little monitor things. Horny? Get horns!

 

[chadnliz]

That's 'cause they've all got some wimpy little monitor things. Horny? Get horns!

No speaker will help these guys unless its ported so they can hump it lol

 

[Mr. Lin]

No speaker will help these guys unless its ported so they can hump it lol

Rear port or front port?

 

[mike d]

Chicks dig men with big speakers........unles the chick is an interior designer or decorator!:yes:

 

[chadnliz]

Rear port or front port?

Thats getting too visual bud But it changes the whole concept of doping woofers doesnt it?

 

[myu701]

I dont think we are talking about "can" because we all know Vinyl can sound better aswell as CD can sound better. I think the real spirit of this sub topic is the ignorant attitude and false information that CD is bad as a blanket statement. Some try to perpetuate the myth that CD is pure and simple never as good as Vinyl.

Yep, that's what I was trying to get at. Digital or analog being better is dependent upon the quality of the recording (and the mastering), equipment quality being equal. For those who claim that they can perceive a difference between what they hear on a high quality CD recording versus the same quality LP, there must be less than 1% of the population who really can (those born with "super" ears, or blessedly free of hearing imperfections).

There is probably room to take the concept deeper... such as doing comparative price points. Assuming the same quality recording and mastering rendered on both CD and LP, does a low-mid price range TT sound better than a low-mid price range CDP? From what I've read and heard, it appears to be subjective, akin to the appeal of slightly warm or slightly bright sound characteristics for some people.

Also, let's not forget the placebo effect. For one person who is biased to believe that modern technology is always better than older tech, the tendency may be to see CD as superior. While a person who is biased toward 'vintage sound' may find that an LP recording is always more realistic (or 'warmer') than the same recording on CD.


Anyway, no lengthy debate on LP/CD intended. There's a decent thread still talking civilized about the subject, here.

 

[glum]

Ok back on track.
The mith that no 8ohm speaker can be considered audoifile that they have to be 4ohm.

 

[audiodon]

glum,
That brings us back to phase compensation in passive crossover networks. The compensation circuitry often changes the load. On LS3/5As, there are 8 and 16 ohm versions.

 

[tensleep]

Ok, so I got a little lost on the crossover thingy. Did we agree that there are just a few active crossovers that exhibit correct phase alignment and that the rest exhibit misalignment, just like passive networks? My Behringer has a time delay function for the low frequencies. Is this a form of phase alignment compensation?

 

[Grainger49]

I have two:

1) Stacking your LPs ruins them.

2) Letting the stylus run on the final groove wears out your stylus.

Both bogus. Probably both posted before.

 

[WattUsay]

When recording, don't let the VU meters go into the red area, as that will cause distortion.

I was told that when purchasing my first cassette deck in the 70's. It resulted in a lot of low volume tapes.