Audio Technica lp120 or Music Hall mmf 2.2?
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JamVal
Addicted Member
I can't speak for the Music Hall mmf 2.2. I do have an AT LP120, purchased new about 5 years ago and hasn't seen much use in the last 4 years.
It was replaced by a Kenwood KD-3070 and then a Pioneer PL-530, cost of both was less than what I spent on the LP120, and even though the Kenwood and Pioneer are mid 1970's products they sound better than the new LP120.
I've recently read some threads on modifications to the LP120, one of which is removing the built in pre-amp. I thought the PHONO-LINE switch on the back of the LP120 would completely bypass the built in pre-amp, but not so. The audio signal path still goes through an inductor and capacitor filter circuit even when bypassing the phono pre-amp. Reviews indicate that it filters out some high frequencies and sounds better removed. But why buy a new turntable and tinker with it which would void the warranty.
The included AT95E cartridge is a keeper, I use it on my PL-530 from time to time.
As far as the LP120 goes, my opinion is that you can do a lot better if you're willing to buy used.
It was replaced by a Kenwood KD-3070 and then a Pioneer PL-530, cost of both was less than what I spent on the LP120, and even though the Kenwood and Pioneer are mid 1970's products they sound better than the new LP120.
I've recently read some threads on modifications to the LP120, one of which is removing the built in pre-amp. I thought the PHONO-LINE switch on the back of the LP120 would completely bypass the built in pre-amp, but not so. The audio signal path still goes through an inductor and capacitor filter circuit even when bypassing the phono pre-amp. Reviews indicate that it filters out some high frequencies and sounds better removed. But why buy a new turntable and tinker with it which would void the warranty.
The included AT95E cartridge is a keeper, I use it on my PL-530 from time to time.
As far as the LP120 goes, my opinion is that you can do a lot better if you're willing to buy used.
Lumpy Waters
Member
The AT95E is well regarded and probably a better a cartridge than the rebranded lower end Ortofon that comes with the MMF2.2. There are number of stylus upgrades for the AT95E and the removable headshell of the AT LP120 tonearm makes changing out cartridges relatively easy. The Magic2 cart on the MMF2.2 could probably take some Ortofon stylus upgrades. The alloy platter on the MMF2.2 can be upgraded to an acrylic platter for another $130.
50watts neither one is a good choice imo, throwing money to the wind with these new entry level tables. Find a vintage table in nice shape that has a good reputation for build quality and performance and probably pay less than any of those two new entry level tables. In my book a new entry level table is bottom of the barrel, cheaply built of sub par materials with poor design/performance, they are money pits going with upgrades to try to cure inadequate performance.
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
JamVal , Very accurate reply!
"New" is the key word... If a cheap priced used LP120 can be had it is IMO worth the effort to do the modifications... However one would still own a 'low to mid-level' TT yet better than stock
"New" is the key word... If a cheap priced used LP120 can be had it is IMO worth the effort to do the modifications... However one would still own a 'low to mid-level' TT yet better than stock
OK, I will try to actually answer your questions:
Both can be had for $299.00.
Given the choice between the two, I would choose the AT: better speed stability (lower wow and flutter) and a tonearm w/ adjustable VTA and removable head shell
Which would pair better with my Schitt Mani?
I imagine they both would equally. It is really dependent on the cartridge and both are moving magnet.
Which would have a greater upgrade path later own?
The Music hall, but you would need to upgrade the power supply and tonearm to equal the AT.
Which have the better tonearm and cartridge out of the box?
The AT has a more versatile tonearm, but some would argue the Music hall is better quality overall. Music hall looks like it is using an Ortofon similar to the OM series. The Ortofon and the AT cart are both well liked. Though I haven't heard either, The AT cart gets better reviews.
Both can be had for $299.00.
Given the choice between the two, I would choose the AT: better speed stability (lower wow and flutter) and a tonearm w/ adjustable VTA and removable head shell
Which would pair better with my Schitt Mani?
I imagine they both would equally. It is really dependent on the cartridge and both are moving magnet.
Which would have a greater upgrade path later own?
The Music hall, but you would need to upgrade the power supply and tonearm to equal the AT.
Which have the better tonearm and cartridge out of the box?
The AT has a more versatile tonearm, but some would argue the Music hall is better quality overall. Music hall looks like it is using an Ortofon similar to the OM series. The Ortofon and the AT cart are both well liked. Though I haven't heard either, The AT cart gets better reviews.
Lumpy Waters
Member
I own the LP-120 and at one point had considered buying the MMF2.2 as an upgrade, but did not end up doing so after further analysis suggested it would not be a significant step up. Buying vintage/used has some risks. I went there, ended up having to buy two turntables to make one good one. If buying new is a must, I'd reccomend the LP-120 over the MMF2.2 but a better buy might be a Denon DP-300F which are going for $200 right now. That leaves $100 for a cartridge that would be step up from the stock carts that come with the LP-120 and MMF2.2.
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No I am here
Trekkie4
Retired Member
IDK about Schitt Mani & Music Hall, but I /do/ own LP120. I've had mine for exactly 1yr now, and without any problems whatsoever. There seems to be a lot of hype about LP120, people are saying this or that, but for what it's worth I'm more than happy with mine! But you should really look into swapping out the cart, as the original 95E just doesn't sound right, not to my ears at least ... but that's a matter of personal taste. The one I ended up using on a regular basis is the vintage Shure M75 ED/T2 with JICO stylus. Not the S.A.S one, just a standard 0.3x0.7mil elliptical. It gave a whole new voice to my LP120 and sounds tons better than it ever did with 95E.
Do keep in mind that LP120 has a standard S-shaped tonearm & will accept any universal SME-type headshell, where on the other hand Music Hall seems to have a fixed headshell, making the cartridge swap a lot more challenging.
mmf-2.2, hands down. I've had mine for four years. But one word of advice: DO NOT try to change out the cartridge by yourself! It's a nightmare. But I would definitely look at its replacement, the mmf-2.3. It's maybe a step underneath the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC (its carbon fiber tonearm is a different one than the DC), and it comes with a Music Hall-branded version of the AT95e called the Spirit. But I would seriously consider replacing the cartridges on both turntables, since they've both been recently discontinued; Music Hall no longer makes the 2.2's Tracker cartridge and AT just recently discontinued the AT95e the Spirit is based on. But if you decide to stay with them, both still have replacement styli still being sold.
bluenote79
Member
I'm curious, what is it about the headshell on the mmf 2.2 that makes changing the cartridge such a nightmare. I'm currently looking at the mmf 2.3 as it seems to be the best table in in its price point with adjustable VTA. But I wonder, is it a pain to change the cartridge on the 2.3 as well?
KlipschFan61
Smooth Jazzer
It's not that hard if you're patient and have some micro tools like a small flat blade screw driver and some decent tweezers. It's not something I would do on a regular basis but two or three times a year will keep those tonearm leads from getting fiddly.
bluenote79
Member
Sorry. Total newbie question here: What do you mean by "tonearm leads becoming fiddly?" Is the above something one should do a few times a year to keep the leads in good working order or only when one needs to change a cartridge?
For the MMF turntables--the wires on the cartridge leads are very thin and easily prone to breakage if one is not careful. Also the same with the Pro-Ject arms as well.
Here is a tip that works for me--never push the clips onto the cartridge pins fully--maybe 80% of the way on. That way, you can use the tip of a jeweler's screwdriver to easily pry the clips off of the pins in the future. It's trying to pull those clips off that causes you to "jolt" and then snaps the wire off. I had bought an MMF-2.1 used that was a bit dysfunctional, including a broken wire--I ended up rewiring the arm and fixing some other minor problem, kept it a few years, then turned it around for sale as I had no use for it.
I'd definitely take a Music Hall TT ahead of that AT. Much more musical to my ears. YMMV of course. That MMF-2.1 I owned looked terrible on paper, and even the platter that rang like a bell seemed like it would be an issue (with a proper dampening mat, it was a moot point). But, it sounded way better than it had any right to!
Here is a tip that works for me--never push the clips onto the cartridge pins fully--maybe 80% of the way on. That way, you can use the tip of a jeweler's screwdriver to easily pry the clips off of the pins in the future. It's trying to pull those clips off that causes you to "jolt" and then snaps the wire off. I had bought an MMF-2.1 used that was a bit dysfunctional, including a broken wire--I ended up rewiring the arm and fixing some other minor problem, kept it a few years, then turned it around for sale as I had no use for it.
I'd definitely take a Music Hall TT ahead of that AT. Much more musical to my ears. YMMV of course. That MMF-2.1 I owned looked terrible on paper, and even the platter that rang like a bell seemed like it would be an issue (with a proper dampening mat, it was a moot point). But, it sounded way better than it had any right to!
Tiver
Enjoy the music
I am not sure what "fiddly" means in this context. It would seem to me to be more chance of "fiddly" if one were to be tugging on the leads more than necessary as the leads can break from from the stress of bending over and over if the wires aren't handles with kid gloves. Of course they won't just break. Just sayin' more handling increases the chances the wires will eventually break.
As far as the OP, I just saw a video on YT that compared the LP120 to the Technics SL-1200. Of course it's mainly because they look almost the same at a glance. Still, worth a search and a look as it demonstrates the build quality of the LP120.
KlipschFan61
Smooth Jazzer
"the wires on the cartridge leads are very thin and easily prone to breakage if one is not careful"
Fiddly.
You must have gotten an early version of the 2.2. Mine came with the Tracker, which was a rebranded Goldring Elektra.
patient_ot
Super Member
The Elektra is a rebrand itself made by a Japanese OEM. You used to be able to get unbranded ones for $20-30 or maybe even less. I think Pfanstheil (sp?) still has their version.
I had read somewhere that the cartridge is actually made by Nagaoka. I always thought it was weird that a company like Goldring would have their stuff made for them by others, given their reputation. I just found out that AT makes the E-Series carts that replaced the Elektra and Elan.
