Audiophile B.S.

Let's all have some fun

How about everyone try to describe what they hear [musically or equipment effect] and let your peers critique it. Just reveal the component or music observed. Any takers?

MikE
 
I was reading an auction description recently, and I was hearing the word "bullshit" over and over. Funny, I was the only one in the room.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3037938195&category=14980
If he is going to charge $300 for this thing, he should tell us exactly how much extra bass weight we will get. If we get ten pounds, cool, that's only $30 per pound. I'd want to weigh the bass myself to be sure though.
 
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I usually don't get involved in "cable war" threads but I would be remiss if I didn't say something about the JPS Power pc. I was fortunate to have the use of a JPS Power for over one year, using it principally on two different amps: VAC pa 35/35 [triode-based PP] and my Moth s45 [SET]. I compared it directly to a number of pcs, including my reference - Shunyata Sidewinder - which is not really in the same league w/the JPS. And while the JPS wasn't my favorite pc either, that distinction goes to the David Elrod IIIs, we're talking SOTA and even more money. Bottomline: Considering diminishing returns, the JPS Power is a damn fine pc and brought out a greater level of performance from most components IMS. Of course, this isn't a product review, nor offers any evidence to support my opinion, but it's no less relevant than someone who dings a product with no frame of reference.

MikE
 
Real funny link and ironically it is true in most cases. Would hurt lots of so-called audiophille snob egos and good for them.
 
MikE - That's quite an interesting story about the JPS Power pc, but the question I'm dying to ask is, "Did it make you feel like you'd crawled into a warm and inviting sonic womb?"

Well... Did it??? ;)
 
"Sonic womb"

That's over the top, even for me. The best I could come up with was this description from another pc review.

Imagine walking into a large, dark opening then flipping on a light source so the space is now illuminated, that is the recreation of ambience your system should provide (given the recording) that I refer to as projecting a believable sound stage... The sound stage doesn’t so much expand in front of you, it immerses you within it.
MikE
 
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Hey, Sorry if I stepped on any toes. My take on the power cords is that if you didn't get any extra bass weight, you got ripped off. But I guess that I know your opinion now, and you know mine. So I'll lay off posting about them.
 
Like I said, I usually don't get into "wire debates" because of the polarization this subject impacts on the readership; either you have witnessed the effect or you haven't, or haven't even tried it but still discredit the product type. The possibility that either side will reconsider their position is minute. But I fet compelled to offer my opinion, seeing that I've used a very similiar product [the two cords are based on the same 8awg wire]. I'm not telling anyone not to post what they think about any product. I would just ask everyone to listen before they conclude the validity of that product. I encourage debate.

MikE
 
:grnbounce Hey moondog:beer:

Funny stuff.:lmao:

IMHO, with my background in electronics and audio (fifteen years in the hearing aid industry), I generally include myself in the "naysayer" cable camp:bs: I also find the, er, um, esoteric tweaks pretty darn funny.:nutz:

The very idea that a power cord cold effect the sound of -insert piece of gear- is astounding. EXCEPT in a -whatever- with poor dc filtering/regulation:uzi: Much tube gear falls into this category. Lots of tube gear has no dc regulation and minimal filtering. No disparagement of tube gear, just statement of fact.. While no cord can ADD anything to the sound, the extra filtering in many after market power cords can REMOVE some of the nasties, i.e. 60/120Hz hum, RFI and the like.:bash:

Gotta give those folks who come up with some of those descriptions credit for their well developed imaginations, tho.:rockon:

:DGeorge:cool:
 
George R.,

Very nicely put and coming from someone with experience, it carries a lot of weight. I have always wondered myself, why would the engineers of a reputed company compromise their showpiece amp with poor cords and compromise its output. They would rather be giving it maximum performance by making sure that there are no weak links in the chain.

Off topic question, is Maico and Bell still making audiometers? Used to be my summer job in NYC as a audiometer tech.
 
systems analysis

This alone was worth joining. Last week, captive and anxious at the dentist's ofc, I picked up a techno twit mag and encountered the following: ". . . there are two kinds of systems analysis: front-end analysis and rear-end analysis."
 
It's called "price point"

One reason manufacturers don't include upgrade parts [including power cords] is due to maintaining a certain price point. Let me give an example. I worked closely with the manufacturer - basically a one man company - of my amplifier concerning upgrades that would have a cost effective impact on sonic performance. We decided on four modifications on his "production amp". All but one of those were reasonably priced with the total cost of parts [alone] coming to about $150.

After the amp was assembled he spent the next 3-4 days burning the amp in and compared the stock amp to mine with the mods. In his words he felt "the upgrades did improve the overall performance" BUT that he would not consider those upgrades into production because of A> Added cost and B> Value. He felt that while the improvements were evident, the results were sublte and outside the price point of his product. But seeing it was my money, we both felt the project was a success [he performed the mods at no additional cost, I just supplied him the parts].

Which brings up another issue. We chose [or I chose and then sought his opinion/approval] the parts to address specific replay characteristics I was hoping to enhance. Obviously, the parts he chose for the stock amp did not take this into consideration, instead were chosen for other reasons. This would also apply to power cords. In fact, one of the production changes he made in his amps was a IEC receptical. I asked him why and he said, "because my customers requested it". This way they could experiment and use a cord of choice rather than be "stuck" with a hard wired cord.

So reducing cost and individual attention to customer needs are but two reasons that such "upgrades" are not included in stock units. As far as compromising performance. Due to maintaining price points this is a delimma but even with a manufacturer's TOTL component they would admit that even greater performance could be attained with "better parts" or supporting devices. And of course, there would be no way they could build each amp specific to each customer's need. That burden, if they choose to accept it, falls on the individual. Look at tube components, do they come with exotic NOS tube varieties? No, they usually come with generic tubes that most people substitute for their personal favorite. To deduce that a product is altered because it's suspect is dubious. No, it may be adequete, but some people will always strive for the extraordinary.

MikE
 
:grnbounce Hey Yamahaluver:beer:

I've been out of the hearing aid biz for over ten years, so I don't know if the audiometers you mentioned are still being made.:dunno:

Mike mentioned that the builder of his amp put the EIC receptacles in his product "because the customers reqeusted them." Speaker manufacturers started putting bi-wiring capabilities into their designs for predominantly the same reason...people WANT them that way. Whether or not bi-wiring works or not, is still unresolved.:headscrat

So many claims are made for esoteric cables/power cords it's almost incredible. They somehow magically add "this" or create "awesome"-pick an attribute/sonic whatever. Fact is, cables can only ADD.... distortion... in varying degrees.:yes:

The only magic a power cord can do is to prevent a certain amount of noise from getting into the system. This may have an impact on a device with a poorly designed power supply, but with proper filtering and regulation, that noise would never get into the signal path.:no: :no: :no:

For even more amazing and some really funny, stories of enhancement, check out the "tweaks and mods" sections of some of the other audio forums.:screwy: :nutz: :lmao:

Happy Listening

:DGeorge:cool:
 
Originally posted by George R
:grnbounce Hey Yamahaluver:beer:

I've been out of the hearing aid biz for over ten years, so I don't know if the audiometers you mentioned are still being made.:dunno:

Mike mentioned that the builder of his amp put the EIC receptacles in his product "because the customers reqeusted them." Speaker manufacturers started putting bi-wiring capabilities into their designs for predominantly the same reason...people WANT them that way. Whether or not bi-wiring works or not, is still unresolved.:headscrat

So many claims are made for esoteric cables/power cords it's almost incredible. They somehow magically add "this" or create "awesome"-pick an attribute/sonic whatever. Fact is, cables can only ADD.... distortion... in varying degrees.:yes:

The only magic a power cord can do is to prevent a certain amount of noise from getting into the system. This may have an impact on a device with a poorly designed power supply, but with proper filtering and regulation, that noise would never get into the signal path.:no: :no: :no:

For even more amazing and some really funny, stories of enhancement, check out the "tweaks and mods" sections of some of the other audio forums.:screwy: :nutz: :lmao:

Happy Listening

:DGeorge:cool:


Fully agree with all you have to say George, the power of suggestion cant be overlooked in this case at all. I have tried bi-wiring and didnt find much difference, I have also tried changing the nice Kawasaki power cord which came with my Yamaha MX-1000 amp to something exotic and nothing happened. The clarity and dynamics of the Yamaha amp remained unchanged.

Sometimes I wonder if I have the ear or the esoteric thinking of these so called tweakers and audiophiles. Maybe I am not in their league.
 
I'll just say this: Tweaking is not done over night. I prefer to listen to one set of things (cables, whatevers..) for a couple of weeks before switching back.
Your ears will tell what's up.
I also believe that you have to learn how to audition tweaks. There are certain things you listen for throughout the musical range that helps determine whether or not tweaks work.
Cables and other tweaks don't jump out at you! Mostly, they are subtle, but to the dedicated listener, they do stick out.
Some of you may laugh at us tweakers. That's okay. Don't put us down for what we hear. If you don't hear it, fine. I don't call you "deaf" or "hard of hearing."
In fact I am jealous of you guys who don't hear changes from cables and tweaks. You guys don't spend half the money I do.:)
 
People believe in what they know. But how do they know what is real? And what happens when those truths are challenged and a new truth is discovered? This assumes we are open to new associations. I'm not in the market to sell anything, change anyone's beliefs or poke fun at your associations. Instead, I share my "truths" in this place. Some will agree, some not. Though while sharing our beliefs it is suspect to comment on products we have no or little experience or to make statements that could be construed as universal truths. Considering the diversity in the composite of our individual systems and listener profiles the fact that results may vary is understandable.

MikE
 
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