Best digital alternatives to USB audio

[nihilionzero]

Hello,
On my desktop PC, I tried switching from USB out to my DAC/amp (Audio-GD NFB11) to using the optical S/PDIF from my onboard soundcard. While I wasn't expecting to hear a difference, the optical sounded like it had a blacker background and was perhaps a bit punchier because of it.

My main listening rig uses a laptop for source, currently connected via USB to a Schiit Gungnir DAC, which has USB, optical and coax. Problem is my laptop only has USB and HDMI out. Which of these following alternatives do you think would be best?

Option 1 ($50-500): Buy fancy USB accessories (i.e., Audioquest Jitterbug, Schiit Wyrd, Ifi iPurifier2, expensive USB cables, etc. Concerns: Expensive and prone to snake oil sales pitches.

Option 2 ($30-50): Buy HDMI audio extractor box. Small, inexpensive box extracts audio from HDMI and outputs coax or optical. Concerns: Are there any re-clocking issues to worry about?

Option 3 ($50-500): Buy inexpensive or expensive USB to coax/optical Digital-to-Digital converter. Concerns: While it should get noise out of the USB, it shouldn't resolve jitter issues since USB is still in the loop.

Thoughts?

 

[nyhifihead]

the good DDC ( digital to digital converters) will have highly accurate clocks that will greatly decrease the jitter of the singal. They also use low noise power supplies and their signal is quite good. highly recommended are the breeze audio u8, gutard u12, and singxer f-1. these range from 50-200 and you can find them used over at head fi. DDC are the way to go to add the most fidelity to your USB digital chain IMO. I use the S/PDIF out of the gustard into my pcm1704 based DAC. Sound is excellent, lower noise floor and subtle changes to timbre really took my digital chain up a notch

All are based on the XMOS chipset with the singxer having the newest iteration which is highly praised, but the singxer relies on 5v USB power so you will need a ifi 5v PSU or a mini talema based linear PSU.

If you are a fan of audio-gd they also make an excellent XMOS based DDC worth checking out.

I would avoid the USB accessories except for a USB over cat6 interface, it lets you be able to place your dac anywhere and it's galvonically isolated between the NICs which removes all USB noise, PS audio sells the "lanrover" which is basically just an active high quality USB over cat6

 

[nihilionzero]

the good DDC ( digital to digital converters) will have highly accurate clocks that will greatly decrease the jitter of the singal. They also use low noise power supplies and their signal is quite good. highly recommended are the breeze audio u8, gutard u12, and singxer f-1. these range from 50-200 and you can find them used over at head fi. DDC are the way to go to add the most fidelity to your USB digital chain IMO. I use the S/PDIF out of the gustard into my pcm1704 based DAC. Sound is excellent, lower noise floor and subtle changes to timbre really took my digital chain up a notch

All are based on the XMOS chipset with the singxer having the newest iteration which is highly praised, but the singxer relies on 5v USB power so you will need a ifi 5v PSU or a mini talema based linear PSU.

If you are a fan of audio-gd they also make an excellent XMOS based DDC worth checking out.

I would avoid the USB accessories except for a USB over cat6 interface, it lets you be able to place your dac anywhere and it's galvonically isolated between the NICs which removes all USB noise, PS audio sells the "lanrover" which is basically just an active high quality USB over cat6

Interesting. I didn't realize there was such a thing as USB over cat6. What do you think about HDMI audio extractors?

 

[E.Auer]

Hello,
On my desktop PC, I tried switching from USB out to my DAC/amp (Audio-GD NFB11) to using the optical S/PDIF from my onboard soundcard. While I wasn't expecting to hear a difference, the optical sounded like it had a blacker background and was perhaps a bit punchier because of it.

My main listening rig uses a laptop for source, currently connected via USB to a Schiit Gungnir DAC, which has USB, optical and coax. Problem is my laptop only has USB and HDMI out. Which of these following alternatives do you think would be best?

Option 1 ($50-500): Buy fancy USB accessories (i.e., Audioquest Jitterbug, Schiit Wyrd, Ifi iPurifier2, expensive USB cables, etc. Concerns: Expensive and prone to snake oil sales pitches.

Option 2 ($30-50): Buy HDMI audio extractor box. Small, inexpensive box extracts audio from HDMI and outputs coax or optical. Concerns: Are there any re-clocking issues to worry about?

Option 3 ($50-500): Buy inexpensive or expensive USB to coax/optical Digital-to-Digital converter. Concerns: While it should get noise out of the USB, it shouldn't resolve jitter issues since USB is still in the loop.

Thoughts?

Are you sure you don't have optical out on your laptop?
The analog out on my Lenovo doubles as a Toslink connector.

Eric

 

[E.Auer]

Plan B would be to get a CCA and cast from the laptop. THe CCA can be connected to your DAC with optical.

Eric

 

[nihilionzero]

Are you sure you don't have optical out on your laptop?
The analog out on my Lenovo doubles as a Toslink connector.

Eric

I have an Asus UX305FA. I haven't seen anything online that suggests I do. I ordered a mini-toslink cable from Amazon for a Chromecast Audio, but that hasn't arrived yet. When It gets here I'll test it out.

 

[nihilionzero]

Plan B would be to get a CCA and cast from the laptop. THe CCA can be connected to your DAC with optical.

Eric

What's a CCA?

 

[E.Auer]

There is nothing wrong with USB. Especially with Linux and Win 10 Creator's Edition. They both have decent USB. I am not impressed with Chromecast - it is basic integrated chips (no better than an onboard PC sound card).

CCA is Chromecast.

The CCA has optical out which is what the OP wanted to use.

Eric

 

[nihilionzero]

The CCA has optical out which is what the OP wanted to use.

Eric

Funny, I actually just ordered a CCA and it should arrive today--though my optical cable could take longer. I bought it for streaming Tidal, but can I also stream audio stored on my laptop and played through Foobar? And if so, does this have jitter and clocking issues to worry about?

 

[nyhifihead]

Interesting. I didn't realize there was such a thing as USB over cat6. What do you think about HDMI audio extractors?

I don't know much, the ones I've seen are certainly not concerned with jitter and noise on the digital line. I'm sure there are ones out there well designed but at a premium price- your better off getting a DDC.

I use an active USB 2.0 over STP cat6 to my gustard u12.

I also use a 4 port pci-e USB 3.0 card that gets power from an external linear power supply, so my entire USB digital chain is decoupled from the motherboards noise.

Spent like $250 total and it made large sonic difference

FWIW through tons of research about digital audio I've only seen a handful of people prefer optical, its often described as thin or empty, also most prone to jitter. Almost all prefer spdif/AES and that's my conclusion as well

 

[E.Auer]

Funny, I actually just ordered a CCA and it should arrive today--though my optical cable could take longer. I bought it for streaming Tidal, but can I also stream audio stored on my laptop and played through Foobar? And if so, does this have jitter and clocking issues to worry about?

I know nothing about Foobar, I use Hi-Fi Cast on Android to stream from my laptops music files. I tried Plex and that works too. I've noticed no Jitter.

Eric

 

[Frank Sol]

USB is fine... use JRiver Media Center on Linux

There are about 1/2 dozen setting changes that need to be made in MC

 

[nihilionzero]

USB is fine... use JRiver Media Center on Linux

There are about 1/2 dozen setting changes that need to be made in MC

Is there any reason to use JRiver on Linux as opposed to W10 Creators?

 

[nihilionzero]

I don't know much, the ones I've seen are certainly not concerned with jitter and noise on the digital line. I'm sure there are ones out there well designed but at a premium price- your better off getting a DDC.

I use an active USB 2.0 over STP cat6 to my gustard u12.

I also use a 4 port pci-e USB 3.0 card that gets power from an external linear power supply, so my entire USB digital chain is decoupled from the motherboards noise.

Spent like $250 total and it made large sonic difference

FWIW through tons of research about digital audio I've only seen a handful of people prefer optical, its often described as thin or empty, also most prone to jitter. Almost all prefer spdif/AES and that's my conclusion as well

Fascinating. Well i already ordered an ifi iPurifier and will give it a try, but you're selling me on the Gustard. One question tho... Is spidif coax less prone to jitter than optical or other approaches? Btw, thanks for helping me.

 

[Frank Sol]

Is there any reason to use JRiver on Linux as opposed to W10 Creators?

Probably just personal... I have win10 and like it but use Linux Ubuntu for digital capture and playback

 

[nyhifihead]

Fascinating. Well i already ordered an ifi iPurifier and will give it a try, but you're selling me on the Gustard. One question tho... Is spidif coax less prone to jitter than optical or other approaches? Btw, thanks for helping me.

I believe so, from what I've read optical has more limited bandwidth than the coax which causes issues with the timing of the 0s and 1s to keep it simple

here's a decent presentation about jitter- http://www.esstech.com/files/4614/4095/4305/about-jitter.pdf

It's all about the clock having the most accurate timing, that will truly give you the best signal for your DAC.

In studios they have independent units made by companies like apogee and focusrite for the sole purpose of having the most accurate word clock for the digital signal, digital coax (BNC) and AES are the most used format

some audiophiles over at head fi actually spend the money for the commercial studio grade digital interfaces with high quality clocks such as mutec mc3+ and the focusrite rednet 3. Implementing these interfaces has been reported to have great positive sonic impact, theres 200+ pages of reports about just the rednet on head fi. The rednet 3 actually gets it's signal over IP which is a relatively new AES approved standard, AES67 aka audio over IP.

As with most in audio it's all about the implementation, high quality power supply, highly accurate clocks and chipsets are key in your digital chain whether its coax or optical.

I'm not interested in spending 800-1500 on a studio grade digital interface but I think that spending 100-200 is reasonable to make your digital pathway as noise and jitter free as possible. both the singxer f-1 and gustard u12 are excellent price/performance

 

[nihilionzero]

I got my iPurifier 2 in the mail and tested it. I can confirm that it helped quite a bit. Not mistakable. Going back and forth on my Jotunheim with DAC module and LCD-2s, blacker background and punchier, more realistic and satisfying timbre. Without the iPurifier, the sound seems less dynamic and "flat". Smallest registers are lost in the haze. I'm pretty impressed, honestly.

Now the question is what further gains are possible with other devices and better USB cables. iFi has good looking cable called the Mercury which looks impressive that at least seems to make some sense. The iPurifier is supposed to re-clock. Will things be re-clocked even more accurately if an additional devices like the Gustard are introduced, or will that kind of screw it up?

Anyway, for now I got a really nice boost.

 

[SWL3600]

Had an audio buddy come over a couple months ago and had him blind tested....

Cd player vs. Windows 10 laptop--> Uptone Audio ISO Regen/LPS-1--> IFI-Microlink USB-SPDIF Converter--> DEQ2496--> Maverick Audio D2 tube DAC playing Spotify Premium.

Played various Steve Ray Vaughan etc on both platforms and the computer audio won every.....single.....time.

 

[nihilionzero]

Had an audio buddy come over a couple months ago and had him blind tested....

Cd player vs. Windows 10 laptop--> Uptone Audio ISO Regen/LPS-1--> IFI-Microlink USB-SPDIF Converter--> DEQ2496--> Maverick Audio D2 tube DAC playing Spotify Premium.

Played various Steve Ray Vaughan etc on both platforms and the computer audio won every.....single.....time.

 

[nihilionzero]

Had an audio buddy come over a couple months ago and had him blind tested....

Cd player vs. Windows 10 laptop--> Uptone Audio ISO Regen/LPS-1--> IFI-Microlink USB-SPDIF Converter--> DEQ2496--> Maverick Audio D2 tube DAC playing Spotify Premium.

Played various Steve Ray Vaughan etc on both platforms and the computer audio won every.....single.....time.

Interesting. Did you try it with just the Regen? I'm wondering if its still necessary to use the USB-SPDIF converter after the Regen. If the Regen does its job, wouldn't introducing the converter be introducing another reclocking with possibly lesser accuracy?