Best Sansui Integrated Amps

Discussion in 'Exclusively Sansui' started by bjarmson, Apr 30, 2006.

  1. c3conv

    c3conv Active Member

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    now that really made it very clear to me now. I would presume that the tone controls are in flat mode.

    A "warm" amp like the 999 should still give a very good non boomy bass if the bass tone control are turned to add db. Will this always be the case or other amp might give boomy bass?
     

     

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  2. 62vauxhall

    62vauxhall AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    This is a horrendously old thread but.....

    I just came into possession of a Sansui AU-D11 II and was searching for opinions. This thread caught my attention because the original poster mentioned he has (or maybe it's had by now) a Kenwood Model 600. That is an amp I bought brand new and owned for over 25 years before selling it. I have a power/pre combo at present but this Sansui was made available for a very. very cheap price. Once it was home and listened to for a short time, I remarked to myself how alike it was sounding to a Model 600.

    They are within 5 watts of each other so between them, Sansui AU-D11 II or Kenwood Model 600, which would be considered the better amplifier? I'm still leaning towards the Kenwood but listening to this Sansui is a pleasure.

    Over a considerable number of years, this is the first piece of Sansui I've ever had.
     
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  3. mjs1

    mjs1 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Hi 62vauxhall,

    I’ll jump in since no one else has. The Sansui is held in high regard in this forum but will need an overhaul and is a pain to work on. I don’t know very much about the Kenwood 600 but, and correct me if I am wrong, it is one of the supremes and, if so, a splendid amplifier. If it is a supreme, it was highly valued by Echowars, a contributer and electronics technician who was a highly esteemed but who has disappeared from this AudioKarma. The power difference is inconsequential, the Kenwood likely will also need an overhaul but, I suspect, will be significantly easier to restore. If you can do the restoration yourself, the Sansui will be a challenge but you will have a superb amplifier. The Kenwood might be much easier to work on or have someone else work on. I have no experience with Kenwoods, however, and have no electronics knowledge. If the Kenwood is not an supreme then, if you liked it so much, it still might be better for you. Echowars was not a big fan of the AU D11 II and I believe would have favored the Kenwood supreme.

    Search AK for posts on the Kenwood for other opinions. Here we can vouch for the sound quality of a restored Sansui, though the restoration is not easy. My 2 cents.

    Marc
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  4. stopkidding

    stopkidding Well-Known Member

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    I and a few others have in this forum have the AU-D11 II that been restored/refurbished and absolutely love it. I don't have experience with the said Kenwood so cannot compare directly, but I personally had a few TOTL line Sansui Integrateds in the past and the AU-D11 Mk2 is the one that ultimately stayed. I also have a modern Yamaha A-S2100 integrated that is highly regarded and in direct comparisions the Sansui is as good or marginally better. Ultimately it's the current condition and the availability of a highly skilled tech who can do basis check and restore that would factor in your decision .
     
  5. BilboBaggins

    BilboBaggins AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I’ve had both the Kenwood 500 and the 600, and although I haven’t had the Sansui AU-D11, I have had the AU-D9. In my opinion, the Kenwood supremes are going to keep on going up in value. They are extremely versatile, powerful, heavy, and they sound so good!

    The Sansui AU-D9 I had was very picky about speakers it was driving. Much more so than the supremes. As well, when I put the AU-D9 for sale, I couldn't get any bites. I finally sold it to a repeat customer who saw it before it was ready. I matched it up with a pair of Genesis Physics II, which was magic!

    I don’t know what I was thinking when I sold the supremes. Major mistake on my part, and if I could afford to buy another, I wouldn’t hesitate.

    Another Sansui integrates I really like, and have right now is the AU-9900. It is beautiful, built well, and tactile feedback from the controls is excellent. I just love using it! I would also take any of its big brothers or it’s mom and pop, the CA-x000 and the BA-x000.
     
  6. Hyperion

    Hyperion Roobarb & Custard Subscriber

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    I just want to point out that there is little similarity between the AU-D9 & AU-D11 and the AU-D11 II - the circuit design is very different.
     
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  7. Hipocrates

    Hipocrates Anti-Muppet Subscriber

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    I've found that's the case with my Sansui units, kind of picky and don't forgive, a bad recording and they will let you know.
     
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  8. reggaenaut

    reggaenaut Addicted Member

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    Great information on the comparison of the Sansui with the modern Yamaha.

    Thanks!
     
  9. johnfalc

    johnfalc Active Member

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    Yes ... very different. The AU-D11 II has a much simpler phono preamp for MC cartridges (generally simpler circuitry throughout, actually); that in the AU-D11 is much more like the MC section in the AU-919, with a dozen paralleled FETs vs. a single FET differential pair followed by an opamp in the AU-D11 II Additionally, and perhaps of more interest since it is always in use, is that the AU-D11 uses feed-forward in an amplifier topology that Sansui deviated from (going to the non-ground-referenced output configuration) with the AU-D11 II. They are both fine amps but, from my experience working on a number of both (and many other Sansui products), I strongly prefer the original AU-D11 and admire its design. I doubt any of us could distinguish between two properly working examples in a well conducted ABX test.
     
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  10. Hyperion

    Hyperion Roobarb & Custard Subscriber

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    The AU-D11 output stage is unusual in my experience, as I have just taken another look. I must have looked at it before but perhaps without recognising the circuitry required for the Super-Feed-Forward system. As a design variant it is almost as interesting to me as the AU-D11 II, of which I am so enamoured, this design being so markedly different to what went before in Sansui's designs. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  11. smurfer77

    smurfer77 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    These models, to me, feel like a historical transition point in the Sansui amp topology, although I'm not familiar with the G series chronology....
     

     

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  12. ghamilton

    ghamilton Super Member

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    I just love my DD/DC 919.
     
  13. phonomac

    phonomac Active Member

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    Just to clarify, at least in European builds of the AU-D11 II, the FET differential pair plus op-amp only handles MM cartridges. The MC input is via a built-in Hashimoto OEM step-up transformer.
     
  14. toneriderMUC

    toneriderMUC Active Member

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    Do you know how this relates to the Au G90x? I am a bit shocked to read that the D11 II uses an op amp for its Phono input. Does the G90x also have op amps in its phono circuit?
     
  15. phonomac

    phonomac Active Member

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    The AU-G90X uses an FET differential pair followed by an effectively four transistor discrete attempt at an op-amp. It is markedly inferior to the AU-D11 II

    You need to stop listening to ill-informed opinion and get over the idea that op-amps are inherently bad. The problem is that op-amps are deceptively simple to use so you get a proliferation of really bad designs created by people who don't understand properly how circuits, especially low-noise designs, work. These then get reviewed and the conclusion is that the cause of poor performance must be op-amps, therefore all op-amps are bad. An op-amp is a circuit building block like any other component, which needs to be understood, selected and applied just as you would with any bipolar or FET device.
     
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  16. Hyperion

    Hyperion Roobarb & Custard Subscriber

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    Here here! - and hurrah! :banana:
     
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  17. Hyperion

    Hyperion Roobarb & Custard Subscriber

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    It has Dual Fets in several positions, and an IC in the protection circuit. Last time I checked, more than one transistor on one chip (µPA68H) sounds like an Integrated Circuit of sorts doesn't it? :)
     
  18. smurfer77

    smurfer77 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I just found a µPA68H inside of my AU-X111MOS yesterday... .can't be that bad :)
     
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  19. johnfalc

    johnfalc Active Member

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    I think that's the case for all of the AU-D11 II, not just European target. As I said in my original post, I doubt any of us will hear the difference, however it is a rather dramatic difference in parts count and circuit complexity, something that suggests the D11 II bill of materials cost was significantly lower. The schematics, for those who are curious, are both readily available on HiFiEngine.com. It was a time of change, the complexity of circuit for both the MC and MM portions of the original D11 are representative of Sansui's inclination, at the time, to do some very clever topologies AND to use proven approaches (like the parallelled FETs - the same approach taken by Ortofon with their MCA76). BTW - I've got nothing against opamps properly applied and their evolution since the mid-late-1970s is dramatic. I didn't take noise figures when I had both the D11 and D11 II here so I'd have to trust Sansui's published numbers for comparison and, for SNR through MC phono, they give the nod to the D11 II.
     
  20. Karl vd Berg

    Karl vd Berg Super Member

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    Hard to choose. Over the years Sansui made really nice units, from AU-20000 to AU-X1 to AU-719 to AU-D11 II to AU-G99X and many others recent, too.

    [​IMG]
     
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