macster
Member
The Revox's (IMO) renders a more neutral sonic presentation. That is based on what I hear in my system.
M~
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Best sounding/recording consumer cassette deck ever made?
- Thread starter jamiecantar
- Start date
The Revox's (IMO) renders a more neutral sonic presentation. That is based on what I hear in my system.
M~
cube-tube
Super Member
This seems more like a rant than anything else.
Besides that, McIntosh used typical electrolytics just like everyone else, so at some point, those amps, preamps, etc, etc all have to be recapped, just like everyone else.
Other than foam rot, drivers very rarely ever go bad unless abused, so no matter who the maker is, speakers should last forever. With that being said, most of them used typical electrolytics, which again, need to be replaced. I know for a fact that Klipsch used motor-run caps, which also need replacing after so long.
So paying top dollar and buying the best of the best doesn't exclude someone from having to still do maintenance of said gear and performing recaps eventually. McIntosh isn't the best thing since sliced bread. It's just that nearly no other company has been around as long, that's all.
Heck, for what it's worth, my Technics turntable has been in constant service since new in 1979. The ONLY thing it has ever needed is a new belt for the auto return function. That doesn't make it the best turntable on the planet...
What'd you use for Dolby S on those Naks? A 422?
WarPig2011
New Member
Hello! Sorry to bump an old thread, but I thought it was better than starting a new one. I'm looking for a recommendation for a deck that can offer the best playback for old tapes that were recorded on various machines. As everyone has stated, "best" is a matter of opinion based on the playback system and the listener's ears. The "best" category I'm looking for is a deck that will get as much of the recorded signal it can, and output it to my digital system.
Auto-reverse and dual-well are not important. If there is such a thing as a "studio playback deck" I'd be interested - but I've never heard "cassette" and "studio" mentioned in the same sentence (other than the one I just wrote).
Cost: well, I didn't win the billion, so cost is a factor.
Thanks much for any suggestions (BTW, that Pioneer Elite looks promising).
Auto-reverse and dual-well are not important. If there is such a thing as a "studio playback deck" I'd be interested - but I've never heard "cassette" and "studio" mentioned in the same sentence (other than the one I just wrote).
Cost: well, I didn't win the billion, so cost is a factor.
Thanks much for any suggestions (BTW, that Pioneer Elite looks promising).
Old Ears too
Super Member
I've been happy with my Sony TC-K75 deck for 40 yrs now. It still compares nicely to my RT-707 deck in play back.
I've had about a dozen decks - the early ones didn't make it (concord mark IV, technics, pioneer)
sound wasn't good, then in the late 70s, came the 3 head, dual capstans, metal tapes etc.
so the best? BIC T4M (M for metal) if recorded at 3 3/4 for frequency response,
Nak 670ZX for recording azimuth alignment prior to recording, Nak Dragon
for playback azimuth, and my current Denon (plays some tapes the NAKs don't).
and for portable (airplane use in the 80s) use - the Sony TCD5M - these
keep their resell value.
if you're looking at Dragons, California probably has the highest numbers. most
work but you'd have to have it refurbed/blue-printed/re-spec'd and only use
metal tapes. you are looking at a serious commitment.
so if you standardize on one machine to record then it may very well play it
back properly. if you buy all sorts then use a dragon or find something that
sounds just right.
However, do buy a demagnetizer. you will definitely hear an improvement
on the first use. in fact, it may raise that mid-range deck to TOTL.
and do enjoy the music.
sound wasn't good, then in the late 70s, came the 3 head, dual capstans, metal tapes etc.
so the best? BIC T4M (M for metal) if recorded at 3 3/4 for frequency response,
Nak 670ZX for recording azimuth alignment prior to recording, Nak Dragon
for playback azimuth, and my current Denon (plays some tapes the NAKs don't).
and for portable (airplane use in the 80s) use - the Sony TCD5M - these
keep their resell value.
sold the BIC and Sony and gave the dragon back.
if you're looking at Dragons, California probably has the highest numbers. most
work but you'd have to have it refurbed/blue-printed/re-spec'd and only use
metal tapes. you are looking at a serious commitment.
so if you standardize on one machine to record then it may very well play it
back properly. if you buy all sorts then use a dragon or find something that
sounds just right.
However, do buy a demagnetizer. you will definitely hear an improvement
on the first use. in fact, it may raise that mid-range deck to TOTL.
and do enjoy the music.
zedex
Well-Known Member
Yea Dragon but who wants to spend $1500+ for a fully serviced deck. And they wont play everything believe it or not. I would look for a BX 300(great deck) or BX 150 Any CR deck,1-7 . 1, and 2 are 2 head, 3 to 7 are 3 head. The CR7 has play head azimuth and is a high dollar deck if you can even find one.If your not recording you dont need a 3 head but they are higher quality arguably. This is just the Nakamichi family there are other brands that are very decent but i know naks and only naks. 
danj
modern primitive
There are lots of great decks but I don't think there is a "best" except in the ear of the beholder. Few vintage decks would be at their best unless they are properly serviced, including a thorough mechanical and electrical alignment, including the tape path and bias and eq. settings.
SterlingOne
Super Member
I think you're a smart guy. I have a pair of Sony PCM-7010F Digital Audio Tape Recorders. They were used for broadcast post production, radio commercial mastering, and DAT distribution for copy to broadcast cart. Interestingly enough, I also have a Sony TC-K950ES Compact Cassette Recorder which when loaded with Maxell UDXL IIs presents recordings pretty much indistinguishable from DAT recordings. Based on that experience, I'd say, since the Sony TC-K950ES was getting a best result, I could also say that the deck was the best; however, reality is there were/are other decks out there that are also as capable as my Sony, so I too don't think there is a declarable winner, and really, does it matter.
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the OP states "best sounding", so it would be a listening test - no?
and if it's a listening wouldn't it also be a personal test (as opposed
to reading all Naktalk/tapehead//AK threads on cassettes)?
there was no mention of price/cost with/without refurb. no doubt as
a general rule all NAKs, 1980+ for the most reliable (eg less than
40YO with lots of production models for unobtanium parts -
the 660/670/68x series for example). and their last models
before closing the business are also good.
and you can find Dragons in Ca for about $500, another $500
gets it refurbed. and yes you can spend $1500.
and I have this commercial tape, Santana, that sounds better
on my denon than on a Nak. both in great playback/demagnetized
condition so go figure.
meanwhile - enjoy the music
and if it's a listening wouldn't it also be a personal test (as opposed
to reading all Naktalk/tapehead//AK threads on cassettes)?
there was no mention of price/cost with/without refurb. no doubt as
a general rule all NAKs, 1980+ for the most reliable (eg less than
40YO with lots of production models for unobtanium parts -
the 660/670/68x series for example). and their last models
before closing the business are also good.
and you can find Dragons in Ca for about $500, another $500
gets it refurbed. and yes you can spend $1500.
and I have this commercial tape, Santana, that sounds better
on my denon than on a Nak. both in great playback/demagnetized
condition so go figure.
meanwhile - enjoy the music
Advent 201a - +1 but in the same league as the Dragon for playback? Not even close... I own both so at least I can say I have heard them both. Don't get me wrong. The Advent is a landmark deck. Believe the transport was from Wollensak. Who in their own rite made some pretty fine decks in the day. But it's just never going to best a nicely running Dragon. Now if we were discussing value that would be different. But that was not the question.
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Taketheflame
Super Member
I don't think there is a single "best" deck, but many great decks to choose from. Same thing with amps/receivers, speakers, etc..everything seems to have a bit of it's own flavor/personality, just depends on what you want. That's something I learned from the world of guitar equipment, and it most certainly applies to stereo gear too, IME.
The only real solution IMO is the one I've been applying to every other kind of gear - pick up a few great examples if you can, and enjoy them all for what they are!
The only real solution IMO is the one I've been applying to every other kind of gear - pick up a few great examples if you can, and enjoy them all for what they are!
Of all the decks I'd heard over the years, the Harman Kardons were the only ones I'd ever heard that IMHO had sonics that would give the Naks a run for their money. Great performance at a lower price. Their distinguishing characteristic was that they used "ultrawideband" electronics (the response of the electronics was well beyond our range of hearing), which cost more but prevented some of the distortion and sibilance that cheaper decks exhibited.
My first H/K was flaky, but, they exchanged it for a CD301 and I've made tapes on that deck using the lowly TDK D-90 that amazed others with how good they sounded. 20-20kHz response with Type 1 tapes; 20-22kHz with Type 4 (metal). I've always wanted the CD491 as that was the pinnacle of their cassette decks IMHO, and they seemed to cheapen up with the later models, as I owned one of those also and it was no different from the average decks I had quickly heard and disposed of.
Never had an issue with Dolby either--having the alignment capabilities of both the bias and Dolby levels made for some really nice listening and none of the artifacts I'd hear in other decks. Since I wasn't a cassette snob, I did not want to spend sick money on a good Nak ($1000+)--I just wanted something that came closest to what I heard in my audio system, for portable use. (Either in the car, or on a Walkman.) I'm done with cassettes now of course, but I have to say owning the H/K was a pleasurable experience all around for me.
That's just my experience; your mileage may vary.
BTW, dual capstan is worth it. I think Nakamichi used to push the pressure pad away from the cassette, and have the front capstan turn just a hair faster than the rear capstan, which kept a constant pressure of the tape against the tape head. I don't even know if the H/K does this, but, it would be ideal no matter who offers it.
Numone
Active Member
I have a TEAC A-450, JVC KD-A7, KD-10 and a Sony TC-K570.
The TEAC A-450 was the best cassette deck in the world when launched in 1973 and 45 years later, it still produces amazing recordings, especially with early BASF Chromdioxide tape.
The cheapest deck I bought was the KD-10, which I bought a few weeks ago and serviced over the past couple of days, is also a brilliant-sounding deck too and far, far better than I remember when I bought one in '78. Again, a forty year old piece of Hifi has no right to still be performing like this.
I went through a couple more JVC's on the mad upgrade path and then settled on the A7 in 1980. This is also a fabulous-sounding deck, especially when used with Scotch Metafine tape which it was factory setup to use - good job I have a dozen or so.
The 570 was the last deck I bought in 1991. I loved the deck but it was pretty much unused due to family commitments and finally completely usurped by my first iPod! I recently brought it back to life after 15 years or so with replacement belts and it's simply fantastic. This deck reproduces the sound of the original recording best. With TDK SA or MA, the recording is practically indistinguishable from the original. But, in reality there is very little difference in the performance of all four decks.
The TEAC A-450 was the best cassette deck in the world when launched in 1973 and 45 years later, it still produces amazing recordings, especially with early BASF Chromdioxide tape.
The cheapest deck I bought was the KD-10, which I bought a few weeks ago and serviced over the past couple of days, is also a brilliant-sounding deck too and far, far better than I remember when I bought one in '78. Again, a forty year old piece of Hifi has no right to still be performing like this.
I went through a couple more JVC's on the mad upgrade path and then settled on the A7 in 1980. This is also a fabulous-sounding deck, especially when used with Scotch Metafine tape which it was factory setup to use - good job I have a dozen or so.
The 570 was the last deck I bought in 1991. I loved the deck but it was pretty much unused due to family commitments and finally completely usurped by my first iPod! I recently brought it back to life after 15 years or so with replacement belts and it's simply fantastic. This deck reproduces the sound of the original recording best. With TDK SA or MA, the recording is practically indistinguishable from the original. But, in reality there is very little difference in the performance of all four decks.
damacman
Resident Psycho
Still have my dad's old hk1000 - phenomenal sounding tapes it made!Of all the decks I'd heard over the years, the Harman Kardons were the only ones I'd ever heard that IMHO had sonics that would give the Naks a run for their money. Great performance at a lower price. Their distinguishing characteristic was that they used "ultrawideband" electronics (the response of the electronics was well beyond our range of hearing), which cost more but prevented some of the distortion and sibilance that cheaper decks exhibited.
My first H/K was flaky, but, they exchanged it for a CD301 and I've made tapes on that deck using the lowly TDK D-90 that amazed others with how good they sounded. 20-20kHz response with Type 1 tapes; 20-22kHz with Type 4 (metal). I've always wanted the CD491 as that was the pinnacle of their cassette decks IMHO, and they seemed to cheapen up with the later models, as I owned one of those also and it was no different from the average decks I had quickly heard and disposed of.
Never had an issue with Dolby either--having the alignment capabilities of both the bias and Dolby levels made for some really nice listening and none of the artifacts I'd hear in other decks. Since I wasn't a cassette snob, I did not want to spend sick money on a good Nak ($1000+)--I just wanted something that came closest to what I heard in my audio system, for portable use. (Either in the car, or on a Walkman.) I'm done with cassettes now of course, but I have to say owning the H/K was a pleasurable experience all around for me.
That's just my experience; your mileage may vary.
BTW, dual capstan is worth it. I think Nakamichi used to push the pressure pad away from the cassette, and have the front capstan turn just a hair faster than the rear capstan, which kept a constant pressure of the tape against the tape head. I don't even know if the H/K does this, but, it would be ideal no matter who offers it.
Did you say the best? Man I have struggled all my life putting the money out and keeping some to build a system. So I have used this Sherwood Tape Deck for like over 30/40 years? It works fine. I pulled out a creat full of cassettes going back to 1999 and on to like 2001. Amazing how the sound changes with each set up I had recorded with at the time, the system sure does effect the end result of a recording big time. It is a working mans tape deck I suppose but it is mine and I own it. And one last thing if you are not hip to what stations to record off the radio well you are missing out on all the fun. Tape Decks were made to record radio stations non commercial listener supported radio stations. But that is just how I live. And if you feel my deck is junk then enlighten me on what I should be listening to and how much it costs and all the reasons why. Not being out of line here just curious.
Canton
Canton
Canton
Canton
dundurnish
New Member
Reviving an old thread here.
I can only go by the decks I've listened to, but the clear winner in my system is the Nakamichi 700 (inflation-adjusted to $3,600 in 2020 dollars (I like to look up the original values scaled to today for context)). Big, bold, clear sound that often bests vinyl sound. It's a BEAST and you need space but I have space so I don't care. I have a Nak 1000 Tri-Tracer (MKI) ($5,530) in the shop now, just picked up for a song. If that deck works as it should then I expect the Nak 700 to perform secondary duty. But on the Nak 700, when I listened to the same tapes on it vs other decks in my system, I felt some freedom to let the other decks go.
The first was the Marantz 5220 ($1,448), a gorgeous deck all lit up, but the Nak 700 makes it sound like a clock radio. The same goes for my Yamaha TC-800D ($1,225), another beautiful deck, wedge-shaped and designed by Mario Bellini. The Yamaha has become a luxury tape rewinder.
I fear for my Nakamichi 600 ($2,372), which just doesn't stand up to the 700. It looks nicer, though, and I love the wedge shape and it still has its original plastic cover, which is rare. The Nak belonged to a friend, and it's gorgeous, so I won't be moving it along.
I thin I'll be moving along my Tandberg TCD-310mkii ($2,254) in full working order that I essentially paid a friend's repair bill to retrieve, and a TCD-300, which will need work. I have a Kenwood KX-710 ($1,132) I bought for nothing; it needs a new belt but regardless I don't think I'll own it long.
On the underestimated end I would put my Marantz 5420 ($1,354). It's an older deck in style but fully restored it sounds pretty amazing. Of course it LOOKS amazing, too, at least to me, with those pretty VUs. But a solid workhorse with really nice sound.
Also on the underestimated list I agree with an earlier poster on the Denon DRS-800 ($918) 3-head with drawer input. I hear they're a bastard to work on but the one I picked up in a deal is terrific. My friends thought I was playing vinyl. I happen to have not the but a perfect Denon CD player to match. The DRS-800 is an undervalued beauty and your friends will love the drawer action. I picked it up in the deal for the Nak 1000 along with a Pioneer CT-F950 ($1,862), which looks and handles like a Ford 350. I've been told that its sound is poor from a trusted source (this one needs some work, which I can't afford thanks to my other tape indiscretions), so I'm trading the Pioneer for work on my Nak 1000.
I have moved the Nak BX-100 down my list. It sounded nice but lasted only three months before failing (two of them did this to me within a week, so bye bye), and a lovely Dual that died within two weeks of coming back from service.
Anyway, thanks for staying with me on the longish post, if you did!
I can only go by the decks I've listened to, but the clear winner in my system is the Nakamichi 700 (inflation-adjusted to $3,600 in 2020 dollars (I like to look up the original values scaled to today for context)). Big, bold, clear sound that often bests vinyl sound. It's a BEAST and you need space but I have space so I don't care. I have a Nak 1000 Tri-Tracer (MKI) ($5,530) in the shop now, just picked up for a song. If that deck works as it should then I expect the Nak 700 to perform secondary duty. But on the Nak 700, when I listened to the same tapes on it vs other decks in my system, I felt some freedom to let the other decks go.
The first was the Marantz 5220 ($1,448), a gorgeous deck all lit up, but the Nak 700 makes it sound like a clock radio. The same goes for my Yamaha TC-800D ($1,225), another beautiful deck, wedge-shaped and designed by Mario Bellini. The Yamaha has become a luxury tape rewinder.
I fear for my Nakamichi 600 ($2,372), which just doesn't stand up to the 700. It looks nicer, though, and I love the wedge shape and it still has its original plastic cover, which is rare. The Nak belonged to a friend, and it's gorgeous, so I won't be moving it along.
I thin I'll be moving along my Tandberg TCD-310mkii ($2,254) in full working order that I essentially paid a friend's repair bill to retrieve, and a TCD-300, which will need work. I have a Kenwood KX-710 ($1,132) I bought for nothing; it needs a new belt but regardless I don't think I'll own it long.
On the underestimated end I would put my Marantz 5420 ($1,354). It's an older deck in style but fully restored it sounds pretty amazing. Of course it LOOKS amazing, too, at least to me, with those pretty VUs. But a solid workhorse with really nice sound.
Also on the underestimated list I agree with an earlier poster on the Denon DRS-800 ($918) 3-head with drawer input. I hear they're a bastard to work on but the one I picked up in a deal is terrific. My friends thought I was playing vinyl. I happen to have not the but a perfect Denon CD player to match. The DRS-800 is an undervalued beauty and your friends will love the drawer action. I picked it up in the deal for the Nak 1000 along with a Pioneer CT-F950 ($1,862), which looks and handles like a Ford 350. I've been told that its sound is poor from a trusted source (this one needs some work, which I can't afford thanks to my other tape indiscretions), so I'm trading the Pioneer for work on my Nak 1000.
I have moved the Nak BX-100 down my list. It sounded nice but lasted only three months before failing (two of them did this to me within a week, so bye bye), and a lovely Dual that died within two weeks of coming back from service.
Anyway, thanks for staying with me on the longish post, if you did!
