Bi-amping AR9’s with receiver and power amp

Recently got a pair of AR9’s.... they are pretty sweet. From what everyone has told me I have obtained some of the best speakers ever. I agree, they are sweet sounding. Ill get to those in a minute....
I REALLY miss my previous modest set up with a Pioneer sx-1050 running my ADS L400’s to play my TV... (I know, a waste of a beautiful receiver) but to its defense, the pioneer was my main with ADS L710’s for everything (tv, TT, digital music) until I restored a Dynaco st-70, and that became my main music source and pioneer was demoted to tv and eye candy. The Dynaco and 710’s were perfect together.... then someone made me an offer I could not refuse on a pair of AR9’s... friends told me to run, the guy selling them asked me what my problem was when I hesitated. Couple hours later my wife was grudgingly helping me unload them from my Wrangler and into the house. Ok problem.... power hungry speakers. Back to the pioneer 1050, yeah, it works but I don’t want to stress it out and I want to listen to these when I am outside doing yard work sometimes (because I can). Can’t bi-amp with a Dynaco on top end and pioneer on the bottom I don’t think? So I have an onkyo m5060r.... 260wpc into 4 ohms. They crank pretty good now.... just using a nad preamp, (my pioneer actually needed some work so I’m cleaning and diagnosing.) The Dynaco is a decoration on top of the rack now sadly until I figure out where it can go next.

I was thinking of bi-amping with the pioneer when I finish service on it and the onkyo using the pioneer on top end and onkyo on the bottom end. I know logistically this doesn’t sound doable without extra headaches. So I was thinking of building a little volume control box for the onkyo and splitting the signal off the pioneer through it. The pioneer would be fine by itself into the high end with its own volume control. Music would be a pain adjusting the low end to match the high end for different recordings, tv would be cool being able to up the low end for movie night but, I am thinking there is something I don’t understand about doing this that I am missing so any insight would be welcomed. Another thought I had was using the pioneer as a preamp and getting another onkyo or just using the single because that drives them pretty good... but that’s a waste of a good receiver, and I don’t have Enough space for two amps and receiver. I am really torn because I appreciate sound (and I know someone is going to throw rocks at me for saying this) but, I also appreciate the esthetics of a sweet looking setup. I really want to be able to implement my pioneer, the onkyo and utilize both amps. It just does not satisfy me to look at an ugly NAD preamp right now running the onkyo(nobody wants to look at nads...) sitting on top of the beautiful onkyo. And god, I wish I was playing my tubes again through these but that’s probably a bad idea to even try. Buying more gear is not an option right now because I spent my wad on the amp and speakers... and plus I am, like many, a cheap audiophile scavenger that enjoys the hunt of a flea market/yard sale score. I don’t know? I guess I just don’t know how to really get what I want from what I have.... I’m sure this all seemed pretty weird and maybe you are asking why did I even buy the speakers if this was going to be my fate but again, it was an offer I couldn’t resist, I know these are lengendary speakers, and I want to enjoy something I normally wouldn’t have the means to aquire unless I got a smokin’ deal. I want to stay vintage, nothing that has plastic parts or has a video input next to the rca’s ya know what I mean? Also thinking about a tube preamp and lending the pioneer to a family member. That might satisfy the tube kinda sound I am missing.... but the pitfall is that these do run my tv and I have two kids and wife that have no patients for proper audio protocol when it comes Time to put on cartoons or the Kardashian’s.

Sorry, scatterbrained. Audiokarma at 4:30am in Boston lol
 
Umm I guess after all that I really didn’t ask any questions lol...
1. Can I do the separate volume box for the bottom end amp and use the receiver for the top end?
2. What would you do in my shoes?
3. Pains me to say it and even think about it but, maybe I bit off more than I can chew and should just sell the speakers, buy a nice set of ADS 1290’s and enjoy my Dynaco again or Get around to using my bob Latino vta120 kit with those?
 
Good Morning new AR-9 owner. I went through a similar situation this year. Great deal for AR-9's but they changed my whole paradigm in regards to power. I did play with bi-amping briefly but didn't like the complexity. Wanting to get music from these outside the house makes it tougher still. I understand your requirement for aesthetics. How much complexity can you put up with? I would have a hard time with controlling the mid to high separate from the lows because I would always be second guessing my self and re-adjusting. Its a process to reaching the "perfect sound". Keep us informed of your progress.
 
Grab another Onkyo power amp utilizing the Pioneer as a pre, make room for it, you know you want to lol.

Using the Pio as a pre isn't a waste of the amp, it's why they put the jumpers there in the first place. Plus I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much better it sounds this way. The Onkyo being true dual mono makes for the perfect scenario for vertical bi-amping, utilizing each amp in a monoblock type setup where one channel drives the low frequencies and the other the high frequencies.

Connected my Infinitys this way with twin Belles amps and they really sing.
 
yes, yes I do want it but I don’t think it will be in the card for a while.... I tell yeah, I was also thinking of the idea with a second Dynaco having two in mono driving the highs and the onkyo with preamp. I don’t think the top end of those speakers take a lot to drive them, just the four woofers for the low end.
 
It might be possible to use the single Dynaco (I don't think you can bridge that amp) for the top end; depends on how much power the upper drivers require. While the minimum recommended amp power is 50 watts for the AR9, according to the manual (note: 103MB download), that's for the full range speaker, and the bass frequencies require most of the power. You could try connecting the Dynaco to the upper range terminals and see if you can play them loudly without distortion (obviously you'll have no bass with this test); if so, if you can manage to balance the levels of the Dynaco and Onkyo amps with a volume control as mentioned, then I think this would be a good way to go.
 
What your wanting to do is the simplest thing ever ,your Onkyo amp lacks internal gain controls for level matching bass with top end ,Correct ? All you need to do is to purchase an inline passive gain control box ,the Emotiva Control Freak works wonders in that application as only 1 is needed to control L & R gain , Google the Control Freak & you'll see how easy it is and you don't need to buy another amp ,your pioneer should do fine on the top end ,I owned your AR9s many moons ago ,great speaker system ,especially the Teledyne AR9s .
 
yes, yes I do want it but I don’t think it will be in the card for a while.... I tell yeah, I was also thinking of the idea with a second Dynaco having two in mono driving the highs and the onkyo with preamp. I don’t think the top end of those speakers take a lot to drive them, just the four woofers for the low end.

The AR engineers are rather insistent in the factory manual that the two amps used in bi-amping should be of equal power
 
I ran my 9's for awhile using an SX-1250 for the upper half and a high power pro amp for the woofers. I don't know much about the 1050 but the 1250 is not that happy with a 4 ohm load even though it was rated with an output wattage at 4 ohms. So it was not suitable to power the entire speaker. Seemed to work OK on the upper end. I would echo what Panhead said above.

If your 9's have not been recapped or refoamed, you should consider recapping the upper crossovers. Mine had a couple of actual leaking caps (the black ones with the red ends do not age well!).
 
AR's have damped woofers, so bi-amping isn't a concern for better bass. The enclosure controls the woofer. If you want a tube sound for the high and a SS sound for the woofer have at it. Remove the crossover section for the woofer and get a low pass filter to control the woofer amp. If Its a good tube amp Just hook it up to the mid and tweeter via the crossover and let the the sound flow. You may need some pink noise and an App for your telephone to match levels. But you should be OK.
 
AR's have damped woofers, so bi-amping isn't a concern for better bass. The enclosure controls the woofer. If you want a tube sound for the high and a SS sound for the woofer have at it. Remove the crossover section for the woofer and get a low pass filter to control the woofer amp. If Its a good tube amp Just hook it up to the mid and tweeter via the crossover and let the the sound flow. You may need some pink noise and an App for your telephone to match levels. But you should be OK.

Unlike my AR90's, the crossover in the AR9's, helps to keep the bass impedance at a more benign level. It also helps control the Q of the woofers, to extend bass at the woofers resonance frequency.

"In the AR9, the two 12-inch acoustic-suspension woofers have a full-section crossover that provides both bass extension and a Q-optimizing circuit."

CSP AR9 Bass

While it's fine to use an electronic crossover before the woofer amp, I wouldn't bypass the built in crossover when implementing it.
 
^^ What he said. The AR engineers specifically stated that biamping should leave both crossovers in place undisturbed. This is a speaker designed to be biamped by simply removing jumpers from the input terminals, not making any changes inside, and it was designed with that intention.
 
Back
Top Bottom