Blasphemy: I do not like the Tobin 104T Mods on my Bozaks
- Thread starter SiliconTi
- Start date
That EQ blend says you have inadequate tweeter response. (For your position, room characteristics, hearing, or preference.) I suuggest (a) moving the tweeters up from your knees, (b) adding a supertweeter in conjunction with the B-200Y, or (c) installing a soft dome or an AMT instead of the B-200Y.
The optimal stand height depends on similar parameters, but I think you will have better results for using a height few inches greater than four inches. The tilt may help or hinder; I suggest you first try the tweeter position change.
The optimal stand height depends on similar parameters, but I think you will have better results for using a height few inches greater than four inches. The tilt may help or hinder; I suggest you first try the tweeter position change.
SiliconTi
Super Member
Yes, the tweeters are weak. There are many factors - they are old and a touch corroded, still in factory location, no stands and no tilt, room acoustics (they sit on deep pile carpet), etc. Basically the worse possible scenario. That being said, with the EQ they sound nice, so I can use that as a "crutch" until I have time to experiment.
I have decided against an external tweeter, etc as they will just get damaged. I'll experiment with stands, and the like. Again, worse case I use the EQ - nothing wrong with that.
I have decided against an external tweeter, etc as they will just get damaged. I'll experiment with stands, and the like. Again, worse case I use the EQ - nothing wrong with that.
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drbiggles
I like to pull weeds.
Hey,
In my living room, having a pair of 302's coupled with the floor is an instant fail. They were sitting on a thick, wool rug too. Even a stick under the front, tilting them back helped loads. I found that a riser of 3 to 4 inches is about right. I've tried 6", 10 and upwards of 14". The higher I went, the bass slowly went away. With them on the floor, the bass was overwhelming and unlistenable. When tuned correctly, they should have an entirely balanced response.
Biggles
In my living room, having a pair of 302's coupled with the floor is an instant fail. They were sitting on a thick, wool rug too. Even a stick under the front, tilting them back helped loads. I found that a riser of 3 to 4 inches is about right. I've tried 6", 10 and upwards of 14". The higher I went, the bass slowly went away. With them on the floor, the bass was overwhelming and unlistenable. When tuned correctly, they should have an entirely balanced response.
Biggles
drbiggles
I like to pull weeds.
And that's all it takes. Each room and system is going to perform a little different. Moving them in and out of corners, up against and away from the back wall, raise and lower, toe in, straight out, tilt or not to tilt. If you had the factory risers, it'd be a little less fiddly.
Biggles
SiliconTi
Super Member
So, Q&D stands are done - 3" rise at the front tapering to 2" in the rear. Helped a bit, the EQ is now at +1.5 at 8K and I left 16K at +6 - though mostly because my hearing I only got to 14K, so this kicks the very to opens ups. bit to compensate.
I will say that the bass is clean and strong on these.
I will say that the bass is clean and strong on these.
Anything above 10 kHz is pushing the response of the B-200Y into territory it cannot properly go. For higher frequency response a more modern tweeter, or a supertweeter, really is required. Biggles has used the SEAS and I've suggested the AMT as well.
Great!
SiliconTi
Super Member
Sooooo.... I received the tube amp and finally had a chance to test it on the Bozaks before I move it to the La Scales.
Oh boy, that made a huge difference! Top end is much better, no EQ needed. It is not broken in yet, but once it warms up it sounds great.
So, amplifier can be another variable (which I knew, but I foolishly sold off all my other amps).
The amp is a GemTune X1 from Amazon. Full tube power amp with a volume control, class A at about 8 watts. Not much info on it, though they have been out for a couple years and are highly rated on Amazon. For $260 or so, I am happy with it.
Oh boy, that made a huge difference! Top end is much better, no EQ needed. It is not broken in yet, but once it warms up it sounds great.
So, amplifier can be another variable (which I knew, but I foolishly sold off all my other amps).
The amp is a GemTune X1 from Amazon. Full tube power amp with a volume control, class A at about 8 watts. Not much info on it, though they have been out for a couple years and are highly rated on Amazon. For $260 or so, I am happy with it.
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drbiggles
I like to pull weeds.
Hey man,
Bozaks are very revealing speakers. What this means is that you can hear the quality of the amplification, preamplifier, sources and media. Once I got my first pair of Bozak B302A's tuned properly, I spent more time investigating better pressings of LP's and CD's. It was refreshing to do something different with vintage audio. In Hi-Fi, everything makes a difference.
Biggles
Bozaks are very revealing speakers. What this means is that you can hear the quality of the amplification, preamplifier, sources and media. Once I got my first pair of Bozak B302A's tuned properly, I spent more time investigating better pressings of LP's and CD's. It was refreshing to do something different with vintage audio. In Hi-Fi, everything makes a difference.
Biggles
The damping factor of the amplifier has a meaningful response on the low end.
The only remaining tweaks are:
An amplifier with more headroom may sound better because the transient response is superior, too. Much of this will be in the power supply design.
Biggles is correct that the clarify of Bozaks can be very revealing of flaws in the audio chain.
The only remaining tweaks are:
(a) Upgrade the paper B-209 midranges to the superior aluminum cones, again avoiding the B-209A which has ringing issues and requires a special damping ring which is unobtainium and very likely not DIY manufacturable.
(b) Relocating the B-200Y tweeters to the top of the cabinet (internal or external) and/or changing to, or adding, a soft-dome or AMT, both with better linearity and frequency response.
(b) Relocating the B-200Y tweeters to the top of the cabinet (internal or external) and/or changing to, or adding, a soft-dome or AMT, both with better linearity and frequency response.
An amplifier with more headroom may sound better because the transient response is superior, too. Much of this will be in the power supply design.
Biggles is correct that the clarify of Bozaks can be very revealing of flaws in the audio chain.
drbiggles
I like to pull weeds.
And Fisher tubed equipment too. I was able to run an x200b for a few weeks, 45 watts a side. If I were a man of means, that's where I'd be.
Biggles
Vashane
New Member
My ears have never been happier.
Love it. A friend of mine (musician... bass player) stopped by recently and was amazed at the tone of my 302As. They are big and full. With the L-pad to move the tweeters. My neighbors not so much. Working on stands now. Any suggestions on degree of tilt? 12x18 room with 8ft ceilings. If i want imaging and big bass I hook up my Warfendale E-90s=eviction notice.
Love it. A friend of mine (musician... bass player) stopped by recently and was amazed at the tone of my 302As. They are big and full. With the L-pad to move the tweeters. My neighbors not so much. Working on stands now. Any suggestions on degree of tilt? 12x18 room with 8ft ceilings. If i want imaging and big bass I hook up my Warfendale E-90s=eviction notice.
Attachments
Welcome to Bozak Cult.
I suggest reviewing Biggles' discussion on the stands he constructed for his carpeted living room. It was being too low to the floor which vacuums up the bass like a teenager at an all-you-can-eat buffet.
You might consider relocating the tweeters to the cabinet top. Just be sure to align the acoustic center of the tweeter with that of the midrange. (Which is not aligned with the woofer, but it is better to have the midrange and treble be time aligned.)
I suggest reviewing Biggles' discussion on the stands he constructed for his carpeted living room. It was being too low to the floor which vacuums up the bass like a teenager at an all-you-can-eat buffet.
You might consider relocating the tweeters to the cabinet top. Just be sure to align the acoustic center of the tweeter with that of the midrange. (Which is not aligned with the woofer, but it is better to have the midrange and treble be time aligned.)
drbiggles
I like to pull weeds.
Hey man,
E90's! You don't see those too terribly often. Each room is different with placement. What works in my living room, won't work in others. You simply need to try it all and see what sticks best to your ear bones. I've got 2x4's that I painted black and keep tucked away, that generally does it. I slam all my Bozaks up against the back wall, a little away from the corners. The further off the floor you go, the bass gets less pronounced. Sitting directly on the floor, all I got was bass. No bueno. Spend some time and move them about and see what you think.
Biggles
E90's! You don't see those too terribly often. Each room is different with placement. What works in my living room, won't work in others. You simply need to try it all and see what sticks best to your ear bones. I've got 2x4's that I painted black and keep tucked away, that generally does it. I slam all my Bozaks up against the back wall, a little away from the corners. The further off the floor you go, the bass gets less pronounced. Sitting directly on the floor, all I got was bass. No bueno. Spend some time and move them about and see what you think.
Biggles
The bass still exists higher up. When decoupled from the floor it becomes increasingly accurate, less distorted, and un-mutilated by whatever low frequencies the floor slurps up and damps, absorbs, or re-radiates at unpleasant harmonics. I've always had much of the low end sound spectrum vanish without a trace, replaced by one-note mergings at the various resonant frequencies of the floor, furniture, bookcases, cabinets, etc. But I have lots of furniture in my living room since it's an apartment without a dedicated listening space.
I have used tubular steel and angle iron, both with rubber isolation. Easily fabricated. Thick rubber pads are very good at decoupling.
