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Bob Crites Titanium Diaphragms in KG4’s , is it worth doing?

Discussion in 'The Klipsch Korner' started by Brian Tambe, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    41D8A604-27D8-4C93-9819-62DC096D334A.jpeg OK , so I “ Finally “ did it and ordered a pair of Bob Crites K-74-K Titanium Diaphragms for my Klipsch KG4’S!! What will be the biggest difference in sound vs the stock Phenolic compression driver?
     

     

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  2. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    I’ve been hearing a lot of people saying that the Titanium upgrade really does improve the Highs that can otherwise be fatiguing at times , is this true? Thoughts , opinions? Cost w/shipping included is $69.90 and I’m having them installed by a professional at $20 each. I’m not out a lot of money!! $109.90 installed!!
     
  3. toxcrusadr

    toxcrusadr AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    33,274
    Location:
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    Hey it takes 10 mins at most with a screwdriver per speaker, you can do it yourself...just do NOT touch the diaphragm itself and be careful with that screwdriver!

    As for what it sounds like...on my 4.2's there were two main differences. Response was damped down a bit in the midrange where it sounded harsh (loud really) - in the electric guitar part of the spectrum. And, it opened up the top end and I was hearing delicate highs I had not heard out of the stock diaphragms. So I'd say all in all it created a much more balanced response curve.
     
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  4. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    Thanks for the response, I’ve been putting this off for a few years now!! I didn’t go with replacing the crossover because the technician at Midwest Speaker Repair said the 1,800hz frequency response is exactly the same with the Titanium vs the original phenolic Diaphragms in My KG4’s
     
  5. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    323
    So the sound is going to definitely be better? The current Diaphragms give the highs at high volume a “ Harsh “ uncomfortable sound at time. I’m excited for this change!!
     
  6. toxcrusadr

    toxcrusadr AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    33,274
    Location:
    Central Missouri
    I think you will like what it does to the top end. Best money you can spend on these speakers.

    I didn't replace my crossovers either, but I did recap them - just two caps - since they had a lot of miles on them. But they are film caps so they are not likely to be THAT bad. Put in the diaphragms and if you want more tweaking, put some nice caps in.
     

     

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  7. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    Do I have to special order the caps or will my technician guy more than likely have crossover caps?
     
  8. Joe nardy

    Joe nardy AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Lombard, IL
    I did the Bob Crites titanium diaphragms and crossover kit in my KG4's earlier this year. I agree with @toxcrusadr that swapping the diaphragms is a very simple task for anyone with even the most modest skills. I was definitely pleased with the upgrades. My best description would be the sound is 'mellower' or 'less harsh'. @toxcrusadr's description is accurate in my opinion. The KG4s were my first horn tweeter speakers and I originally found them to be too midrange and high end biased for my liking. After the upgrades they were much more even and pleasing for my tastes. I did the upgrades in steps, first swapping one tweeter then comparing between speakers, then swapping the other tweeter, then upgrading one crossover and comparing again. I'd say the tweeters made a very noticeable difference and the crossovers made a significantly lesser difference. I have read some reviews saying the tweeters made the biggest difference and others saying the crossovers made a bigger difference. The majority of reviews seemed to indicate the tweeters made the bigger difference which matched my experience.

    For what it's worth, I've used the KG4's mostly with a Pioneer SX-1050 and Pioneer SPEC-1/SPEC-4. They sound nice on both, probably a bit better on the SPEC system. Many people say the KG4's really shine with tube gear but I haven't (yet) jumped into that arena so I can't comment on it.

    I think you'll be happy with the titanium diaphragms. If you have any problems just give them a call. You'll be speaking to Mr. Crites himself and he's extremely nice and helpful.

    Thanks,
    Joe
     
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  9. Joe nardy

    Joe nardy AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Lombard, IL
    Bob Crites sells complete crossovers and capacitor kits which use good quality Sonicaps. I priced out the caps individually and Bob's price was less than I was able to find elsewhere. Swapping the caps is more difficult than the diaphragms but certainly DIY if you're reasonably handy with soldering.

    Thanks,
    Joe
     
  10. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    323
    Thank you Joe for your input , I really appreciate it. I’m not going to replace the crossover because the technician at Midwest Speaker Repair said and backed up what you said about there being no difference in sound quality due to the frequency response being exactly the same and using a good quality amplifier, which I have , the Denon AVR 3300 , will not be necessary to upgrade the crossover! I’m excited to hear the difference!! Thanks again for your input!!
     
  11. toxcrusadr

    toxcrusadr AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    33,274
    Location:
    Central Missouri
    There is a bit more to crossovers than the crossover frequency, but I'm not trying to change your mind about replacing the whole crossover. I haven't done it to mine and I'd want to see exactly what changes were made before making a decision. I have no doubt that there would be some differences in the overall frequency response curve, otherwise it would not be a different crossover.

    I think you are on the right track.

    As to whether your technician would have crossover caps, maybe, maybe not. They should be caps designed for crossovers and people usually don't stock those. Anyway it's easy to change out the caps later if you want.
     

     

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  12. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    The original “ Phenolic “ Diaphragms in the KG4’S K-74-K have a frequency of 1,800hz and the Titanium replacement K-74-K frequency is also 1,800hz so I’m assuming that the need to change the crossover is therefore unnecessary because my crossovers are operating perfectly.
     
  13. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    2CB0ABA3-F10D-426E-8264-05690D4BEAF3.jpeg
     
  14. Brian Tambe

    Brian Tambe Active Member

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    I was informed that the phenolic diaphragm is made of a plastic material and obviously the titanium is much stronger and durable and would therefore be able to withstand vibration better. I am , like I said , very excited about this upgrade. I have noticed the new vintage Klipsch Loudspeakers such as the heresy the forte the chorus all have titanium material in their drivers in the tweeters midranges they’ve exclusively gone to titanium so there is definitely something here to doing this.
     
  15. Dudeman7

    Dudeman7 Active Member

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    127
    Location:
    Michigan
    Different speakers, I know but, I recently put Crites TI tweeter diaphragms in my KG 2.5s.

    It was very easy to do and there is an easily noticeable improvement in the midrange and high end.

    Finger noise on acoustic guitar recordings jump out at me and I can really hear the stages of decay from cymbals more clearly than before. Also, there is a spacious quality to solo vocals that I have typically only heard from more expensive speakers .

    I was on the fence whether or not it would be a worthwhile investment. After doing it, IMO, it's the best money I could have spent on these speakers.
     
  16. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan AK Member Subscriber

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    15,751
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Well not really. Some very high output drivers from Altec, JBL and EV used phenolic diaphragms. Subjectively many non Klipsch hornys , JBL fans especially, prefer the sound of aluminum and phenolic to titanium. Titanium was first used by JBL and not because it sounded better but because the titanium suspension allowed higher output—aluminum suspensions had a tendency to crack under prolonged high output professional use. Altec solved that problem not with titanium diaphragms but with a mylar suspension on an aluminum diaphragm. Radian uses that aluminum and mylar system today on their compression drivers. So does Tannoy.
     

     

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  17. Joe nardy

    Joe nardy AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I'm not completely sure but I believe the Bob Crites crossover capacitor kits use the same capacitance values as the original crossovers. The theory is that over time the capacitance values and ESR (electrostatic resistance) can drift which affects the crossover frequencies and signal strength. I noticed a change in sound but it was minor compared to the diaphragms. I agree that it's probably not necessary. It's all up to you and your ears. If you're happy with the way the speakers sound with just the diaphragms then I'd say put on some of your favorite music and enjoy the sound!
     
  18. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Well-Known Member

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    801
    Location:
    Western MI
    I just did my KG4's last weekend. Ordering Crites Ti's was easy, installing them took all of 20-30 minutes. (I could have done them faster, but I had to stop to answer a phone call).
    I'm very pleased with the sound. There is a noticeable difference even in very short listening periods compared to the old phenolic. It's like there is more sparkle at the high end. Best money spent!:thumbsup:
     
  19. ClpshHrn

    ClpshHrn Member

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    72
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Odds are you're gonna love them. They are more detailed, but the main thing I noticed when I installed them into my Klf 20s is that they are more dynamic. Songs that are dynamic really allow the speaker to strut its stuff now. Everything's much more smooth and silky up top. This was all before I upgraded my crossover which makes a minor difference too and is worth it.
     
  20. Ramseybella

    Ramseybella AK Member

    Messages:
    834
    Location:
    White Rock, New Mexico
    Eventually planning on doing this with my Heresy two’s.
     

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