Bozak b410 concert grande, room size

quad cities, illinois iowa border, 150 miles west of chi town, home of the rock island line,sliced bread and john deere tractors, east moline illinois ,moline, illinois rock island, il,davenport, ia
 
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I don't have the space but have seen the price drop since initially listed. Spent 40 years there and still get back regularly. Worked in Bettendorf for 6 years in the 90's. Love the Quad Cities area.
 
If that's the set that's been for sale for the last couple years, the seller got them for $700 at auction. A friend of mine was at that auction.
 
Yeah, he got lucky and got a deal at an auction. I can't fault him for that. Although its good to know what he paid, thanks vinyldavid, He said he was firm at 1700. That seems like a fair price, (even if they're more a 7 than a 9 cosmetically). The proximity is pretty favorable, I can oversee and participate in the move. Its 35 miles away, the bitch for me is moving them from his apartment above his business in an old storefront down those stairs. But its reasonable to think that in a 4 hour time frame they would be in a much better place. (and so would I) I'm not a flipper, I want them...but I also want those altec a7's in southern Wisconsin more., hmmm I have negotiation ammo.............
 
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Just get em both, only way to find out which ones you like more....then sell the losers
 
I'm not faulting him for getting a good deal, but he's repeatedly refused offers of $1500 from me for a couple years, and IIRC they have some cosmetic damage.
 
Bozak speakers from that period with 200y tweeters start rolling off at 12khz and are down abut 6 to 8 db at 16 KHZ. So with the right parametric eq you can bring some of that back, but you'll never get the ringy resonant quality of modern tweeters. Bozak tweeters are damped to prevent oscillations common with modern metal diaphragm tweeters. Something you'll get use to. It guarantees long term listing with out fatigue. If you do wish to add super tweeters, finding good ones that are efficient enough to match your grands will be a challenge. I would recommend replacing all the caps in the crossover networks ASAP. That should restore some of the balance you are looking for. Place the speakers against the short wall and then playing music you like move about the room at ear level and find a spot on the center line between the two speakers that gives you the most accurate bass, Grands can really couple with a room creating some humps in the lower mid bass. So selecting the right listening spot is critical. Mine reach down below 25 hz with only a few db correction, and are flat to 4 kHz where I intentionally introduce a smooth roll off to 18 kHz of 4 to 6 db. A little increase on the treble control and they are ruler flat, which I don't recommend. Most Bozak owners believe the sound of a Grand doesn't come together till your 16 ft away from the speaker. I listened to mine for years at 14 ft, but now listen in a larger room at 16 ft. Another rule is to breakup the reflection coming off the back wall behind you and if possible be at least 12 ft in front of the rear surface to mentally suppress the rear reflection in your mind. The Haas effect.

Even with controlled tweeters and because of the directivity of the line array and the famous mid ranges, Grands don't like compromised electronics which are revealed instantly. And though Bozaks don't require big power 75 watts per channel is the minimum you need to produce peaks on well recorded selections. Bi-amping with great amps yields great sound. Bi amping with compromised electronics is not a great idea. Having the correct electronic crossover is very important, to. You need to join the Bozak owners group over at Yahoo. There is a wealth of information you should understand thoroughly in order to get the best performance out of your speakers. I have owned Grands since 69 and 4000 Symphonies before that, with 4005 and 313 now in a HT configuration. I have used tube, SS, Crown, Mac, and B&K amps. And installed them with many other amps. I currently use Mac MC 207 amps after having used Crown amps and other Mac amps. For best performance using the passive crossover on a budget, would be a Mac MC 7100. Next would be the 7200. If you want to try tubes, look for a MKII or III MC 275. A 7100 on the bottom and a 275 on top might be and ideal combo for some folks. I'll stick with my Tri amped Grands with Celestion Super tweeters driven with a MC 207. But I'll tell you if you want to hear the best and return to the sounds of the 70's, a pair of MC 3500's powering Grands is the perfect set-up. But who has $27000 for restored 44 year old amps. Do they deserve the amps, sure if they are restored. That how great Grands can be. Power them with so so amps and you'll get worse than so so sound.
 
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There's also a thriving Bozak Speakers Facebook group that has many of the same brilliant people, and it's actually possible to get in!

(I'm one of the Admins, I handle most of the requests).
 
I also plan on quad amping my three Grands with supertweeters with a Crestron CNAMPX-12x60, which is built by ATI. I'm debating whether to go with a passive line level crossover or something advanced and digital (and 4th order).
 
OK, I want to, but I haven't bought them yet. Now after reading twiiii's post I wonder if I have enough listening space. To state my intention clearly, they will not be a part of a surround sound system. If I buy them I plan on having the crossovers recapped. I will not be adding tweeters. I am not going to buy a $5000 amp in the forseeable future, likely never. (unless I win the lottery)

I had hoped to place them upstairs in the bigger 16 by 28 living room that has a vaulted ceiling. One end has an open doorway to the kitchen and the other end opens into the foyer. So I'm wondering (out loud) if that room is right. Maybe not. My second option is the 14 by 26 listening room with a 9 foot ceiling. I will run audio from a cable box into them wherever they end up so the wife can listen to them while watching the idiot box but for the most part they will be simple 2 channel stereo speakers properly amped. I will gradually add to them a good reel to reel, turntable, cd player and for now a Pioneer sx 838. That's it. I realize its not a dream set up for the true audiophile. Just a competent set up. Old iconic speakers brought back to life hooked up to some other vintage quality TOTL components that I will acquire over time.

I appreciate all input. Exposing my ignorance humbles me. I don't have the ability or knowledge twiiii and vinyldavid to measure these things you speak of. Just my ears. Hell the speakers I have set up now in my listening area sound great to me. Electro Voice fr210b's stacked on top of some EV Interface 3's. But they lack a little on the low end, just a little. Not having heard a set of Altec a7's in 30 years I am wondering (out loud again) if the horns really sound as good as I remember. After listening to the Bozak grands that need recapped, in a space much too small for them I am wondering (out loud again) what they would sound like recapped. It probably is an apples vs oranges comparison. One thing I am absolutely sure of is that the Bozaks would definitely be more aesthetically pleasing upstairs than the Altec a7's.

So I just ruled the Altecs out. So it comes down to this, is the upstairs room right for the speakers?
 
I, too, can't afford the high dollar gear. I, too, have a pair of EV Interface 3 Series II. Over many years and judicious spending, I have been able to create some systems that I am very happy with. My Bozak 302a were my first significant audio purchase in nearly 15 years, and that was 10 years ago. I ran them for years with a tired Yamaha CR-1020 and was very happy. During that time period, I got lucky and came up with a few more killer deals. I finally recapped my Bozaks 5 years ago, and the improvement was remarkable. 2 years ago, I was able to afford to have my Yamaha gone all the way through. That setup is perfect, as far as I'm concerned. I don't have super tweeters, the latest, most rare of Bozak drivers, or anything. But, the system is excellent, I enjoy it, and I can afford it. I also have a really nice Kenwood turntable that is part of the system. I have to go through it, because the speed regulation started getting wonky. But, I have learned patience over time.

A couple of years ago, I came across a pair of Bozak Symphonies for a good price. I grabbed them, because I knew what they were. I bargained for some tweeter upgrades, which are 50% installed. The improvement was very obvious. Next, I bought some Mitsubishi gear, amp and preamp. They are close to period correct, and are somewhat obscure but very well made. I just got them back from my technician after waiting almost half a year to have them fixed up - the wait was well worth it.

Compared to new equipment, what I have far outperforms what I could afford for the same dollar value.

Last year, I had a change in my circumstances that caused me to move from a 2600 sq ft home to a 1000 sq ft trailer, not going into details. All of my stuff is in the wrong space now, but guess what? It still sounds great! My audio circumstances may not be ideal, but it only has to please me. I hope you can get the Concert Grands and give them their due. They are a different philosophy in audio reproduction from most other brands, but Rudy Bozak's theory is sound and they have their reputation for a reason.

Besides, for me, working on the speakers and getting that boost in performance as I learn is almost as rewarding as just listening to good quality gear. I am definitely a midfi guy.
 
OK, I want to, but I haven't bought them yet. Now after reading twiiii's post I wonder if I have enough listening space. To state my intention clearly, they will not be a part of a surround sound system. If I buy them I plan on having the crossovers recapped. I will not be adding tweeters. I am not going to buy a $5000 amp in the forseeable future, likely never. (unless I win the lottery)

I had hoped to place them upstairs in the bigger 16 by 28 living room that has a vaulted ceiling. One end has an open doorway to the kitchen and the other end opens into the foyer. So I'm wondering (out loud) if that room is right. Maybe not. My second option is the 14 by 26 listening room with a 9 foot ceiling. I will run audio from a cable box into them wherever they end up so the wife can listen to them while watching the idiot box but for the most part they will be simple 2 channel stereo speakers properly amped. I will gradually add to them a good reel to reel, turntable, cd player and for now a Pioneer sx 838. That's it. I realize its not a dream set up for the true audiophile. Just a competent set up. Old iconic speakers brought back to life hooked up to some other vintage quality TOTL components that I will acquire over time.

I appreciate all input. Exposing my ignorance humbles me. I don't have the ability or knowledge twiiii and vinyldavid to measure these things you speak of. Just my ears. Hell the speakers I have set up now in my listening area sound great to me. Electro Voice fr210b's stacked on top of some EV Interface 3's. But they lack a little on the low end, just a little. Not having heard a set of Altec a7's in 30 years I am wondering (out loud again) if the horns really sound as good as I remember. After listening to the Bozak grands that need recapped, in a space much too small for them I am wondering (out loud again) what they would sound like recapped. It probably is an apples vs oranges comparison. One thing I am absolutely sure of is that the Bozaks would definitely be more aesthetically pleasing upstairs than the Altec a7's.

So I just ruled the Altecs out. So it comes down to this, is the upstairs room right for the speakers?
It would be nice to follow some of the recommendations given here as these guys are probably some of the most knowledge able on the planet.But if your like me I need to start out back quite a bit.Like tensleep said just a good quality Yamaha would be a good start.I have some Bozak 302a and to my ears Yamaha is what they sounded best with.I ran mine with a CR2020 and a CA1010.Concert Grands were always at or near the top of my dream speakers ever since I got the 302a but I realize I don't now nor will ever have the room to do them justice.
 
It's probably a fair price, but if you're patient, you can likely get some for cheaper...I've seen plenty of them around $1k to $1200 but of course, yes condition is very important with these...but if you want them, go get them!

Or, there is a pair of B-305's if you would rather dip your toe into the Bozak sound to see what it's all about. They were actually my old pair, sold to another AK'er and then restored. Search QCA CL for Bozak and you'll find them.
 
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