Budget Gateway Reissue?

Discussion in 'McIntosh Audio' started by smartin53, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. smartin53

    smartin53 Active Member

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    So this is just a crazy thought on my part, but I wonder if McIntosh has ever considered a kinda reissue aimed at entry level folks who are curious and also want something of quality.

    The MA252 kickstarted my thought on this but is still a semi niche draw.

    I was thinking something more straightforward. For many the MA6100 has been a common "first" McIntosh since it dumped everything you needed into one unit. Certainly was the case for me. I was thinking a modern 6100 reissue tailored to modern yet common household systems (forego all the XLR stuff) and maybe toss in a simple USB DAC all for $1500 or so.

    It would still conform to the typical McIntosh quality, but make it available to a lot of folks who otherwise would skip such a system.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    Probably the MA230, if anything tube-ish.
     
  3. ron-c

    ron-c AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    The MA252 is calling you.
    Ron-C
     
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  4. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    Assuming a $3500 budget.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  5. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    The claim for Mac's first hybrid integrated is incorrect, that was in fact the forementioned MA230, tho the other way 'round.
     
  6. ron-c

    ron-c AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Wrong price.
    Ron-C
     
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  7. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    Indeed, conflated websearch.
    $3500
     
  8. c_dk

    c_dk Addicted Member

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    Over a six year period, from '66 to '72, Mac produced almost 9400 MA5100s.......that was a breakout unit. The MA6100 added to that manufacturing and marketing success. Those two units along with the MAC1700 and 1900 receivers gave Mac dealers sell thru products and kept cash flow humming along.

    I do not see how the MA5200 or 252 fits that breakout mold......
     
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  9. 62caddy

    62caddy Trust but verify Subscriber

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    There are plenty of new units available that your description for $1,500 or less but they won't say "McIntosh" on them. :no:

    You'd have to go back to nearly 40 years before you'd find a $1,500 McIntosh product fitting your criteria which would be 3x as much in today's funds.

    Even an MA6200 in excellent condition commands up to $1,500 currently. Not a prayer you'll ever see the comparable new McIntosh product priced at $1,500.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  10. smartin53

    smartin53 Active Member

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    Yea that was kind of how I was viewing it. There was obviously a time they aimed at the common household which I think helped establish the reputation they are banking now. Obviously there is some risk if they couldn't meet demand which might also be one reason for sticking with higher cost models.
     
  11. c_dk

    c_dk Addicted Member

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    Not nessesarily a average or common household but certainly a unique group of people.

    Our metropolitan statistical area back in the late 70s into the 80s was 800,000 people according to the US. Government. According to the McIntosh marketing people we therefore should have had 800 Mac owners as customers and our direct mailing list should be 8000. Their number of people that would be interested in component type audio systems. Even though we had great success in selling McIntosh products since we only had 762 Mac owners on file both Gow and Roos would point out we "still had work" to do. Our owner decided to bear the extra mailing costs and maintain our mailing list at 10,000 or so, when it crept up to 12000, we would get together as managers and do some major weaning.

    Using that numerology there should now be 350,000 Mac owners in the US as the population has grown and they should be older as it has aged.

    If I was still active in the business I should sit down with my old mailing list and still see how many of those 762 owners are still owners as we saw a lot of equipment sold locally as the auto and office furniture jobs crumbled over the last decade.
     
  12. damacman

    damacman Blown and Injected Subscriber

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    Gordon was obviously genius in this regard. I was in consumer electronics sales on the manufacturer side for ten years - companies want the number without any tools in place to earn it. Certainly not like this.
     
  13. c_dk

    c_dk Addicted Member

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    When I got sat down in Gordon's office back in 1980 and he laid out his "world of McIntosh" view it seems a lot different than the current view.

    I was petrified, learned much, and did share that story with the current national a few Thursdays ago.

    Gow's personal commitment to help small market guys like us succeed was so obvious and real, and absolutely vital for Mac to succeed in his view.

    One time, a year or so later, we were sitting around in our local 5 star resturant after dinner and the five of us and our wives laid out how we should measure our success as managers.......and it didn't involve sales numbers.
     
  14. welcomdmat

    welcomdmat AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I think most of the folks “getting into” McIntosh are also getting into higher end music reproduction. A base offer creates a base brand.

    New interest in McIntosh is best served by used equipment. It is very durable, and it is therefore readily available as a quality addition
     
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  15. damacman

    damacman Blown and Injected Subscriber

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    Few understand that Chris.
     
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  16. c_dk

    c_dk Addicted Member

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    This site is mostly about audio gear, the pride of ownership thing is prevalent.

    For most of the general public it is about the music, the emotional connection to music not a connection to the audio hardware.

    For many decades you purchased your audio gear from the guy whose kids went to your kids school, a member of your local BBB, a buddy would bring you into to " his" audio guy at your local emporium.

    This was the small city McIntosh business model......when you look at the services that McIntosh offered to the "end user", the support they would give to their customer, their dealer base that they expected to support and grow the brand, well, a lot of those things have seemingly gotten lost in the race to be "cosmopolitan" to be a luxury branded product.

    I find it amazing how few local dealers are mentioned in this forum......it must be a product of the net.

    Gordon, David, Dirk et al not only were there to help us with the hardware they also were there to help us get beyond the gear and deal with the people part of the business.

    Why else would they fly in 4-5 times a year to do special events with us, a small west Michigan dealer that even then was in fly over country.
     
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  17. smartin53

    smartin53 Active Member

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    I think that sums up more of what I was aiming for in the "common" reference. You are right in that they weren't per se aiming for the folks that buy a budget Sony or Pioneer receiver today, but they weren't just aiming for the guy who bought a Mercedes or Rolls Royce in the day either. There was a connection between the buyer and the seller that was honest vs exclusive.

    I don't feel that today's McIntosh meets that value at the end user level (though the manufacturer itself still meets the production value, when produced at its NY facility).
     
  18. c_dk

    c_dk Addicted Member

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    Only time will revel how much value the present product will represent.

    There were certainly owners who bought a MA6100 and have owned it for now almost 50 years, others who thought it would be one and done and got caught up in the siren call of upgradeitus.....

    It is a fun hobby but can and should be so much more. It is about music right?
     
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  19. smartin53

    smartin53 Active Member

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    Absolutely.
     
  20. c_dk

    c_dk Addicted Member

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    A different spin on your retro reissue.....

    Many years ago, while doing training at EAW in Boston, I had lunch with the company president. After sharing our embarrassment about our "vulgar" first meetings with a traditional Japanese business president (he taught me how to properly accept a business card) he found out I had come from 20 some years in the high end audio business not the traditional audio contracting business. Instantly he wanted to talk about audiophile stuff and must have talked to some of his staff because by the end of the day I was having dinner with two of his "closet" audiophile engineers.

    One of them, while in his previous employment, was part of a task force to evaluate McIntosh's now sister company, Audio Research, for purchase by his past employer.

    One of the things he marveled at was the large profit center AR had by the continual update program. I seem to remember that they enjoyed more profit from the A,B,C, etc. update program than they did from the sale of new units. He was stunned with this information and in the end his employer backed out of the purchase.

    I think there is general agreement that the purchase of used McIntosh equipment has traditionally been a major entry point for new owners to get into the McIntosh family.

    Local dealers have struggled for decades to maintain profitable service departments and therefore train and retain service personnel at local competitive wages.

    A number of us on this forum have shared our attempts and experiences in restoring these vintage units for continued use, and improving their performance to approach contempory performance expectations.

    Instead of rereleasing throwback units how about a factory engineered?, restoration program, with factory certified updates, modern redesigns of known problem areas, digital controlled volume controls for example, maybe even new boards.

    The key part would be to have this work done locally at the local dealer. Make it a profitable program for the dealer, get added traffic into the store front and train the personnel to be able to take the warranty service burden off of beleaguered Landon at the factory.

    I believe Mercedes does this with their used cars.....I am sure there are other similar programs in other industries.

    If 75% of the 100,000 plus vintage 60s and 70s McIntosh units are still in use it should keep the local techs busy for a few years.....
     
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