Bypassing large 1000uf electrolytic with smaller 10uf electrolytic caps

You didn't answer this question .Regarding amplifiers if a 330uf cap is passing the whole signal in such case the highs will be able to pass undistorted ?. Also before installing the 1000uf KG caps I made some measurements and ESR was 0.01 and Vloss 1.2% so I presume they are ok because de bass and sound depth was much higher compared with KZ. The problem was only with the bad high freq that was restored using those 10uf KZ caps in parallel.
Sorry, I don't understand your question. Where in your amplifier does a 330uf capacitor pass the whole signal?

It sounds like you're talking about a coupling capacitor. In capacitively-coupled amplifiers, a coupling capacitor will attenuate low frequency signals and completely block DC, which is the reason for using it. The larger the value of the capacitor, the lower the attenuation frequency. In a typical coupling configuration, it acts as a high-pass filter, so high frequencies are passed undistorted. Its value for audio circuits is typically selected so that it attenuates below 20hz.

A filter capacitor is not a coupling capacitor.
 
I mean this :"After that mod the sound has become huge with amazing bass but the high freq was bad with bad detail in high mid-high frequencies"
Regards.
That was a description of the OP's experience with one amplifier. I don't think that necessarily means all Nichicon KG III caps have "high frequency leakage", does it?
 
Sorry, I don't understand your question. Where in your amplifier does a 330uf capacitor pass the whole signal?

It sounds like you're talking about a coupling capacitor. In capacitively-coupled amplifiers, a coupling capacitor will attenuate low frequency signals and completely block DC, which is the reason for using it. The larger the value of the capacitor, the lower the attenuation frequency. In a typical coupling configuration, it acts as a high-pass filter, so high frequencies are passed undistorted. Its value for audio circuits is typically selected so that it attenuates below 20hz.

A filter capacitor is not a coupling capacitor.

I made this mod because I readed on many places that usually power supply huge bass caps have a problem with the highs so they need special bypass treatment . Using an ESR metter almost all high quality caps measure the same but in reality they sound very different . Your saying that a preamp power supply cap only feed the circuit and if the bad highs was because they are deffective . So this means the previous 1000uf Nichicon KZ didn't have bass because they are also deffective ?. And after I replaced those NIchicon KZ with KG I had huge bass and fat sound compared to KZ but because this time the high freq was poor compared to KZ they must be deffective ?.

But if you are right means that KZ is also deffective because those didn't have that huge bass and ultra fat sound like KG ?.

So it make sense? .

Seems that you don;t want to answer that question or you don;t know how to answer ?. I asked hypothetically but maybe I asked wrong .

If a cap is passing the whole signal in such case the highs will be able to pass undistorted ?

If is not the cap that is passing the signal means that the cap is equally important because it feeds the passing signal circuit with energy ?.

If a circuit is passing the whole signal in such case the highs will be able to pass undistorted ?
 
Capacitors used as power supply filters (as yours are) are there in order to provide capacity for the power supply to deliver current during peak current demands , like a larger amp hour battery, of the same voltage provides more current capability. The lower frequencies require more current capacity to keep the power supply voltage from sagging or dropping in voltage. Hence large capacitors. Adding a small capacitor in parallel should have minimal effect on the low or highs. Like putting a small battery in parallel with a huge battery all being same voltage. The only reason I can think of where this effect you mention might happen is if for some reason your large capacitors have a high ESR at the higher frequencies. Then a smaller capacitor would help on the high frequency end as they would have a lower ESR at higher frequencies and therefore filter the higher frequencies better.(hold up the power supply)..
 
Remember the ESR meter is only using one frequency to test the capacitor. Look up the ESR specs on the capacitors you are using as they usually give the ESR at different frequencies. This may give you a clue as to why this is happening.
 
I made this mod because I readed on many places that usually power supply huge bass caps have a problem with the highs so they need special bypass treatment .
Where have you read this?

There are numerous top-quality amplifiers and preamplifiers that use only large electrolytic capacitors in the power supply, with no additional capacitors in parallel with them, and they have excellent frequency response across the spectrum.
Using an ESR metter almost all high quality caps measure the same but in reality they sound very different .
Used as coupling or crossover caps, they can certainly sound very different. Changing power supply filter caps will not affect the sound unless they're defective. If they were not defective, and you're experiencing significant changes in sound, there are almost certainly other reasons for it.

For example -- and assuming it's not a psychoacoustic effect -- you may have had corrosion on the external connectors that was wiped away when you removed and reinstalling leads to change the caps.
Seems that you don;t want to answer that question or you don;t know how to answer ?. I asked hypothetically but maybe I asked wrong .
I didn't understand the original question, but in my answer just before this one, I did answer it. I pointed out that a capacitor used in a coupling configuration will pass highs undistorted. Lows may be distorted or attenuated. However, the capacitors you're referring to are power supply filter capacitors, not coupling capacitors.
 
That was a description of the OP's experience with one amplifier. I don't think that necessarily means all Nichicon KG III caps have "high frequency leakage", does it?
Sir, it is the my same experience with the same caps bought in England from a first class Hi Fi component 'seller. Regards
 
Capacitors used as power supply filters (as yours are) are there in order to provide capacity for the power supply to deliver current during peak current demands , like a larger amp hour battery, of the same voltage provides more current capability. The lower frequencies require more current capacity to keep the power supply voltage from sagging or dropping in voltage. Hence large capacitors. Adding a small capacitor in parallel should have minimal effect on the low or highs. Like putting a small battery in parallel with a huge battery all being same voltage. The only reason I can think of where this effect you mention might happen is if for some reason your large capacitors have a high ESR at the higher frequencies. Then a smaller capacitor would help on the high frequency end as they would have a lower ESR at higher frequencies and therefore filter the higher frequencies better.(hold up the power supply)..
I think this explains a lot .Your very smart . I didn't ever think about that because i don;t have such ESR meter .

My ESR is setted only at one freq .It;s a very accurate multi tester that vorks also for resistors,transistores and now I think it measures the ESR at enough low freq si I can; figure out what cap will work best for what ..

Can you recomand a good esr metter for such measurements ..one that is not expansive?
 
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If you look those capacitors specifications up it should tell you what the esr is at several different frequencies. I think mouser lists the specs. I do not know of a more complex esr meter Maybe those caps are not so good at high frequencies as the smaller one is therefore together they work better??
 
If you look those capacitors specifications up it should tell you what the esr is at several different frequencies. I think mouser lists the specs. I do not know of a more complex esr meter Maybe those caps are not so good at high frequencies as the smaller one is therefore together they work better??
I think this is the cause . Today after I already added 2x10uf KZ electro's for every 1000uf I made some serious listening and is a new dimension .

Not only the details are better but everything is more 3D. And the musig is more imposing .

Before when using 2x1000uf KZ everything was nice and detailed but somehow like a joke.

Now with this combination everything is very profound. The music made me pay attention .

But I don't think only 20uf is enough .

I don;t know what will happen if i also add 2 more 10uf Silmic II and 2 Cerafines for every 1000UF cap ??.

Is this a good ideea ?. There are risks of creating phase distortions or unwanted freq artefacts? with such 6x10 uf electro per cap mod?.

The 1000KG ones measured 940uf and 930uf so I have more room to add 60 -70 more UF.

Also until now I don't understand the risks of adding big non-polar film caps in paralel with polar electrolytics .

I mean if i replace a 220 polar one with a 220 non-polar the cap can explode .

So the film cap is also non-polar so adding a 10uf film cap in parallel with 1000uf is safe ?

I really don;t want to kill the amp or to have a very short lifespan with such mod.
 
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Apart from this all, one thing apparently is forgotten, which is the nice power supply regulator chip and adjacent circuitry.
It is designed to take away the supply ripple and rubbish, including the small influence from whatever ESR value for whatever frequency of the smoothing caps.
 
Apart from this all, one thing apparently is forgotten, which is the nice power supply regulator chip and adjacent circuitry.
It is designed to take away the supply ripple and rubbish, including the small influence from whatever ESR value for whatever frequency of the smoothing caps.
bob777 already figured out why the sound has improved . Because the other caps have good esr at high freq and also high mid-high don't require a very large capacity so it makes perfect sense that a 20uf cap can have more power in the hights that one 1000uf if the small one have very low esr on the high freq right ?.

So adding a smaller one and a very big one can create the illusion that the smaller one is not important when in reality the small one is more imposing in the highs freq right ?
 
bob777 already figured out why the sound has improved . Because the other caps have good esr at high freq and also high mid-high don't require a very large capacity so it makes perfect sense that a 20uf cap can have more power in the hights that one 1000uf if the small one have very low esr on the high freq right ?.
I'm afraid this doesn't explain it, and doesn't make sense in terms of how power supply filtering works. The ESR differences between capacitor types and sizes would only account for differences in the amount of ripple rejection at different line frequencies. Depending on where you live, the line frequency is fixed at either 50hz or 60hz, and larger caps generally have lower ESR than equivalent smaller caps.

Therefore, adding small caps in parallel doesn't account for changes in amplifier frequency response. Either the original caps were defective, or something else accounts for the changed sound.
 
I'm afraid this doesn't explain it, and doesn't make sense in terms of how power supply filtering works. The ESR differences between capacitor types and sizes would only account for differences in the amount of ripple rejection at different line frequencies. Depending on where you live, the line frequency is fixed at either 50hz or 60hz, and larger caps generally have lower ESR than equivalent smaller caps.

Therefore, adding small caps in parallel doesn't account for changes in amplifier frequency response. Either the original caps were defective, or something else accounts for the changed sound.
So your saying that a good non defective 1000uf Panasonic FC will have the same benefit like an 1000uf BLACK GATE when used in peamp power supply or the main amp section main caps ??.

So the Black Gate buyers are just imaginning ?. Also is strange because some amp mod experts are recomanding Black Gates in the power supply sections and those are 20x more expansive that a regular cap ..

Also how you explain that the 1000uf NICHICON KZ translate in a crysp detailed sound that have poor bass and the 1000uf KG ones have ultra low bass freq but poor highs ?. Those are all broke ?

Also another user already mentioned that he experienced the same sound when he used KGs.
 
i would like to see data on these improvements .like set frequencies being run through the amps and pics of scopes and distortion analysers etc .
and also ripple of the power supplies and varying voltages .
i dont doubt these improvements might happen i would really like to see why it happens . i dont have the equipment here to do valid testing or the time to do it .
 
The dual tracking Mitsubishi M5230L PSU chip is doing all the work here.

Playing around with small value decoupling caps upstream and downstream on a non-switching power supply with a rated 12uV residual noise and a few milliamps of current draw isn't going to do a thing. The high frequency characteristics of the caps used in that specific application are irrelevant, as we are only dealing with rectified 50/60Hz.

If you want to play with bypassing caps, have a poke around in the parts of the circuit where they may actually do something- the interstage coupling caps.
 
So your saying that a good non defective 1000uf Panasonic FC will have the same benefit like an 1000uf BLACK GATE when used in peamp power supply or the main amp section main caps ??.
Assuming by "main caps" you mean power supply filter caps, there may be slight differences in discharge rate, ESR, thermal noise, terminal resistance between different filter caps, and these might have some (subtle) effect on sound.
So the Black Gate buyers are just imaginning ?. Also is strange because some amp mod experts are recomanding Black Gates in the power supply sections and those are 20x more expansive that a regular cap ..

Also how you explain that the 1000uf NICHICON KZ translate in a crysp detailed sound that have poor bass and the 1000uf KG ones have ultra low bass freq but poor highs ?. Those are all broke ?
I'm not claiming anyone is imagining anything, but such dramatic changes do not occur as result of changing one set of functioning power supply filter capacitors for another set of functioning filter capacitors of the same value, unless some caps are defective or unformed. If they were working properly and fully formed, the change in sound came from something else.
 
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