C-800 Contemporary coming home....

[larryderouin]

Going to pick it up tomorrow. It's a '58 with the R-20. I was hoping for a '59 with a R-30-S, but what the heck.
D.C. Craigslist. Seller dropped the price from 2 Jacksons and a Hamilton, to 2 Jacksons and an Honest Abe after 4 days.

Wife has had it "UP TO HERE" with consoles in the house, so I'm gonna have to get rid of a couple eventually. This one will go in the shed as that where my bench is. Then when I have the room, it'll get moved into the house.

I may this summer see if I can find a R-30-S chassis and retrofit it. If not no biggie.

 

[TheRed1]

Congratulations, Larry. I'm glad one of "us" got this one. I've been so far under the weather, I didn't even consider crawling out of bed to take a look at it.

Don't overlook the R-31-S chassis as a potential upgrade. That would give you a B channel pre-amp AND MPX connectivity.

Carter

 

[larryderouin]

Must be really bad when you stay in bed at the mention of a FISHER for sale! Get well quick.

Just for S&G's I'll probably see if the R-3 fit's in it. Gotta take it out of the WR-11 to refinish the cabinet anyway. With those New T.S. 6V6 in P-P-P it'll probably sound pretty decent on the Jensens in the C-800. But yeah a 30-S would be a good upgrade and with the 560 a serious contender against at least the Hybrids, and close to the Exec.

 

[Sam Cogley]

Don't sell the R20 short, and if you later find a C-810 with the R-30-S chassis, you can hook them together as a stereo pair!

 

[larryderouin]

I can probably do that with the 610 consolette, or the 560 companion I have now.

 

[Sam Cogley]

The early R-20s had an input marked "TV" - later models changed that to "Stereo," obviously intending for the C800 to serve as an extension amplifier/speaker system for the forthcoming C810 or similar products.

This is the first C800 I've seen with the C810 style knobs. Interesting.

 

[buglegirl]

Hiya,

That model is one of my Favorites.

I think its the same exact one as Jon's in this thread.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/fisher-contemporary-console-r-20-chassis.355797/

Good find Larry and safe travels through that hell that is the DC "Beltway" tomorrow.

Frannie

 

[Sam Cogley]

I stand corrected, this is the second one I've seen with the later style knobs.

The C800 is the same model as my console. I think there is a picture around here somewhere of me transporting it, upside down, in the back seat of my BMW convertible.

 

[larryderouin]

I saw that one again, today. Quite a few back years you did that trick Sam. We'll see tomorrow which version it has in it.

The one thing I DID notice was that the T.T. is NOT a RC-120/121. Looks more like a RC-88 by the controls, but it has the overarm. Jon's has a 121 mk-II. This one looks like a combination of RC-88 controls with a RC-120 Tonearm and a funky overarm.

I've seen pics of one that had "TV - STEREO" over on Radio-Museum.

Anyone know where I can get a clearer R-20 Schematic, than the one on FISHERCONSOLES? That one is too blurry and the lettering for the tubes is bad enough I have to guess on the tube types, until I get the chassis in house. Funny thing tho, I was looking at pics of a 1955 CUSTOM FUTURA with the J-10 chassis and I could have sworn it was a spittin image of the R20. 5u4 Rectifier, P-P EL-84's and all the other 9 tubes in the same layout. Can't remember where it was I saw it today tho. I'll get pics tomorrow of ALL the dirty details and what's in the envelope. And we'll go from there.

Larry

 

[Sam Cogley]

That schematic is the best one available. Red said that the source he used was quite poor. If you have any questions about it, I should be able to help now that mine actually works.

One thing I did was drill a hole in the chassis for a fuse holder. Considering that earlier Fisher products had them, the lack of a fuse on the R20 is both unusual and disconcerting.

 

[larryderouin]

Thanks SAM. I should be able to muddle through the obvious stuff, but just keep an eye on the thread. It's gonna be a while before I can do anything other than an initial inspection, verify the actual parts used vs. the parts list, and bring it up on a variac/DBT. Fuse/holder, new RCA's, new connector for the Phono power, clean, test tubes in my mule 490T/481A electra chassis' and what ever else I can do without $$ outlay. And that includes a new DMM (hopefully a Fluke, who knows.) and a HAKKO 888 soldering station. Getting tired of having to geta new iron every year or so.

 

[sruddy]

Nice find Larry!! I wish mine had those original knobs. I have been looking for years. I'm using some from a 70RT now. Mine is in the living room and we listen to it all the time. This is the console that got me started collecting Fisher products.

It's gonna be a while before I can do anything other than an initial inspection, verify the actual parts used vs. the parts list, and bring it up on a variac/DBT. Fuse/holder, new RCA's, new connector for the Phono power, clean, test tubes in my mule 490T/481A electra chassis' and what ever else I can do without $$ outlay. And that includes a new DMM (hopefully a Fluke, who knows.) and a HAKKO 888 soldering station. Getting tired of having to geta new iron every year or so.

I have never come across a thread were someone has replaced the RCA inputs. I think that's a great idea. Show your work when you get around to it.

I couldn't live without my Hakko you will love it.

 

[larryderouin]

60 year old RCA's suck. They have a ceramic center piece which cracks, and the rivets get loose which makes for lousy connections. Look up the Model 24B I did last year and the R-3 I have now. I replaced them on both.

Now back to the C-800

Got home @ 4:50pm beating the Gridlock between DC and Baltimore. . It's stripped now.
Phono is a RC-121 / 4 The original variant. Not the MK-II's we're used to in the 510/610. and other units of that age which came out the next year.

Cabinet is in Very good shape. Some minor crazing of the vewneer on the
top, and the bottom edge is starting to peel no more than 1/8" to 1/4". More like little nicks in the edge than peeling. Speakers are Jensens all date coded 220705 (Feb 1957) Outstanding shape so far.

Chassis has a good heavy layer of dust on it, but NO RUST and NO Rat Trails.

The lady's father bought it new in Roanoke, and she got it in about 1990.
It's sat in her basement since 1992.

Except for the EL-84's, 12ax7, 6SC7 and 6al5, all tubes are
marked THE FISHER (even the GE Rectifier). Of the above listed tubes, only
the 6sc7 is a Sylvania. The EL-84's, 12ax7, and 6AL5 are MULLARDS with the
correct date codes for mid 1957.

SERIAL # is 10198-E. So this is a very early R-20. The Aux input is marked
TV(only). NO stereo Markings of any kind.

I got a shit load of Documentation, for both the C-800 and the Garrard. The
RC-121/4 is hung in mid cycle as the Tonearm is sprung to 1/2 way in and won't
stay in the rest position.
I'll get the Documents Scanned for posterity. Everything that JONBOY55 has on FISHERCONSOLES for the C-800 I have here with the addition of the tube layout and a lot of RC-121/4 Documentation.

Gotta find my paint brush and that new can of Scrubbing bubbles and clean the chassis. Which is UNMOLESTED underneath.


:FISHER BRANDED G.E. 5U4GA/GB


MULLARD EL-84's

R-20 Chassis 10198-E

Virgin Underside

Cabinet after Simple Green 1 to 5 with Water.

All Speakers EIA code is 220705 (5th week of 1957/FEB '57) 8 weks before my 2nd birthday............OH SHUT UP!!

Plan right now is to clean chassis, test tubes and inventory underside parts for replacement, Pull and store the Mullard EL-84's (one's getter it really thin and worn out), clean and overhaul the RC-121/4 and get a new LP stylus for the RPX. I may put a an early Type A in it. OR Drop an AT-6 in the 610 and use that RC-121 MK-II in the C-800. I have a slimline in good shape so that's a possibility too.

 

[buglegirl]

Hiya Larry,

Dang it that is nice. And those tubes are worth 3 times (Plus!!) the price you paid alone.

I would leave it Mono and do a shoot out against the Coronet

Frannie

 

[larryderouin]

Thanks Fran. I was kinda thinking the same thing. The Mullards are verified BLACKBURNS. Hoo Boy! I wrote down all the codes but left them out in the shed. All of the FISHER BRANDED Tubes with the exception of the 5U4GB are RCA's! (274) The 5U4GB is a G.E. All of the date codes on the RCA's are between 5722 and 5726. Between July and Aug 1957. which correlates with the early serial # (provided FISHER started with 10001 by then).

It cleaned up real nicely with Scrubbing Bubbles, a brush & a roll of paper towels. Then I flushed the whole thing with CRC QD electronics cleaner. DeOxit on all the controls, and tube sockets. This thing hasn't ever been touched except for the 6sc7 tube (it looks damned new even with the dust on it). There was even some cobwebs (white one's) in the 6DC6 front end tube shield. Yeah it got cleaned out.

Everything looks nice and clean underneath. This thing is definately a virgin. I checked the Filter caps with my cap checker (typically there's always leakage with this thing on E'lytic's. Values are within 10% or so. Power factors are good on them. One of the white ceramic coated E'lytic had a cracked case and was open, it's gonna get replaced anyway. I went thru all the caps on it that would normally get replaced, and I've got everything but the filter caps and 1 - .0047 film. DAMN! So I made up a list of films and 2 JJ clamp styles (40-20-20-20 @ 500V to cover a 40-40-20 @ 450V) with clamps for later. I'm gonna replace what I have right now then redo with all new Illinois axials later. Gonna use K-40's .1uf 400V for output couplers tho.

P-P-P 6v6 vs. P-P EL-84's? Hell I can do that now with the coronet and the 610/560. It's not a fair comparison as the speakers are different too. With theC-800 both have Jensen 15", but the Coronet is a COAX, and the C-800 is a 15" bass, 8" mid and a 3" tweet. It'll be close.

Compared to the R-3, the R-20 is like comparing a SANSUI 1000A to a All American 5. I mean that in a good way as far as parts count, chassis overall size, and WEIGHT! About 1/2 the parts, slightly thinner chassis and I can carry it comfortably with one hand. There's 6-7 years of engineering difference between them and I get the feeling the "DUTCHMEN" were adding their "fairy GODFATHER" stuff to the mix. Still there is the FISHER quality, but the overly complicated tuner and amplifier stages have been simplified while improving the spec's and sound quality. I suspect the R-20 will sound similar to the 610 chassis or a 30A on the Contemporary's speakers.

The phono power plug is this BIG Round 3 prong affair that reminds me of a wall plug built by a cross-eyed geek. The blades are offset from each other (all 3 of them) so it only goes in one way. Wonder if this is an early mounting and they went with a normal plug later??? The one shown on Radiomuseum has a slightly lower serial and the same plug.

Time for Dinner. Plus I'm pooped. Might even sleep tonight!

I'll get some updated pics of the chassis when I get some batteries.

Larry

 

[Sam Cogley]

Both of the R20s that have been through my hands used the same plug for the turntable power. They used that plug for the auto-off feature, and to keep it from being plugged into a wall socket.

I just stuck Nichicons on terminal strips under the chassis for the filter caps. Plenty of room down there. I also went down to a 39uF for the first stage, in order to not over-stress the 5U4GA rectifier.

 

[larryderouin]

One more thing I noticed when I pulled the chassis. Both of the EL-84's were doing a great imitation of the leaning tower of Pisa (bent pins and all!) So i straightened the pins and pulled out my stash of EL-84 retainers. Keeps them UPRIGHT and tight in the sockets. I had initially got them for my TA-600, but ordered some more as most of my amps/consoles run EL-84's or ELL-80's. So this one will get the retainer's also.

This is on my TA-600.

 

[larryderouin]

I changed all the underside electrolytics, and the film caps in the signal path, but 1 (a .0047) and was putting the last of the coupling caps in when I snapped a resistor. Never fails! I didn't have that one in stock (470,000). So between the .0047uf cap, the 470K resistor, I'm stuck until the Eagle shits. As the Mains are 40-40-20 @ 450v I've been thinking about using F+T 40-20-20-20 @ 450v and paralleling the 2 20's to get the 2nd 40.

Oh yeah. I tested all the tubes on the R-20. Used both the EICO 625 and Philco 9100 (Hickok 533a). The only one's that were low were the 12ax7 (gM 1200 and 1050 emissions deep in Replace), and the EL-84's. Both had gM's of >7500 but Emissions very low. The Rectifier was barely in the ok range. I replaced the rectifier with a 1959 GE that damn near broke the scale needle, but I'll hold judgement on the 12ax7 and el84's for now.

 

[buglegirl]

Larry,

I would keep that Fisher Branded 5U4 if only for its rarity. At least keep the base as I guess the Glass is not branded right ??

And no moss grows under your feet as you jump right at it. Refreshing considering my plodding pace

Frannie

 

[larryderouin]

Oh definately I'll keep them. What surprised me was the RF tubes all tested at least twice the gm minimum, and in emissions they were ALL above 80 on both the Eico and the Philco. The 6AL5 went off the scale on both testers for emissions.