Calling in the Pros - who has done it

jblnut

Don't Overthink It
I find myself at an interesting juncture in this hobby. After decades of component upgrades and a recent acquisition of my "grail" speakers (Revel Salon 2's), I finally need to face facts - the room sucks. It's just too reflective and the wide dispersion of the Salons is putting a ton of mid and high frequency energy into the room.

So, I can continue to do what I have done with components and try to research sound absorption panels and bass traps. Or, I can call in a qualified acoustic engineer and get it done "right".

I'd like to hear from anyone who has gone this route - how did you pick someone ? What were the services you chose ? How did it work out ?

Between my system and the piano in the room, I have too much invested in hardware to keep futzing around by trial and error. I want it done, and done right once and for all.

jblnut
 
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Pros?

The old slang term for prostitutes is "pros".

I have first hand knowledge that most companies and employees are only interested in making money, don't really know WTF they are doing and could not care less.

If you want it done right, do it yourself.
 
Ummm...thanks for that but I'd like to hear from someone who has used an audio consultant/engineer to analyze their room or studio and make recommendations on how to improve the acoustics.

Third hand "they all suck and are out to rob you" diatribes please find another thread to crap on....

jblnut
 
I found this book very helpful: http://getbettersound.com/index.php. I don't have nearly the system that you have, but by implementing some of the suggestions in this book in my room I think I have realized significant improvements.

I'm not sure if he's still offering it, but the author's RoomPlay service was supposedly very beneficial. (though, well out of my budget).

Good luck!
 
Man...it’s maybe not as hard as you think. The behavior of sonic energy in an enclosed space is pretty predictable and the fundamentals of the science are easy to grasp...and a basic understanding of the fundamentals is all you need to be able to effectively implement some acoustic treatment devices. The first order of business is taming early reflections and making the listening spot a “reflection free zone”. Lots of videos on YouTube that illustrate this concept and here’s one that does it pretty clearly.
Do you have some pics of your room you can share? I’m happy to offer a helpful observation.
*Disclaimer...I’m no pro, but I’m free and have spent a lot of time and effort on the topic and have experienced very good results in my own listening space as well as listening spaces for several friends/acquaintances.

- Michael
 
Also, GIK acoustics has a consultation program available and their acoustic devices are priced very reasonably...so maybe an all in one package for you there.

-Michael
 
Thanks Michael - I have been looking at the GIK site as these are the first WAF-friendly panels I've found. Maybe I will just start with a few of these and see how it goes. I was hoping to find someone who could analyze my room and offer some expert guidance as I have some unique issues to deal with. Things like a bumped up ceiling over the speakers and gear, multiple entry points, and a large piano in the room.

jblnut
 
I’m interested to hear what they can do with an imperfect space vs a bespoke music room.
For $80k the B&O Beolab 90’s have active room correction, beam width & direction control (think steerable sweet spot), 8200w per side and completely odd looks most would hate. I’m close to a B&O store and they sound amazing.
 
I hear ya. When I moved my main rig out of my dedicated listening space...which had acoustic treatment devices everywhere and all of them carefully and deliberately located...and into my living room which is rather large, open, irregular in shape with open doorways to other areas of the house and very restrictive with regard to where I could locate the speakers, I knew I could be flirting with disaster. But honestly, it turned out to not be the train wreck I thought it would. The speaker choice helped a lot (horns and ok to place close to front wall), but so did the natural acoustics of the room. Most of my reflections arrive to the listening spot late enough after the direct sound from the speakers that I experience little to no image blurring/shift or loss of resolution to sound stage. You may have a similar situation if your room is large and the boundary surfaces are far enough away from you and the speakers. If that’s the case, the only other issues you may have are with room reverb/decay and accurate reproduction of low frequencies.
What particular issues are you hearing that you’re hoping to correct?
 
This isn't exactly the point of view you're asking for because I am an acoustical engineer, not someone who has hired one. However I am in the process of finishing my basement which will include a purpose-built listening room. I've also been through the design process on other critical listening spaces, including listening rooms, recording studio control rooms, conference rooms, classrooms, and even a few auditoriums (auditoria?)

I'd like to hear from anyone who has gone this route - how did you pick someone ?

I went ahead and picked myself. Why? Cheap labor. I'm also getting help from my friend the architect for pretty much the same reason.

What were the services you chose ?

If you hire a professional, they will likely ask you for the details of your space (dimensions, surfaces, windows, doors, furniture) and provide you with a plan that includes some combination of modifications and treatments. What recommendations you get depends on your goals and how far you're willing to go to do things "right."

That being said, I think it'd be difficult to find a full-time acoustical engineer would be willing to take on a small project like this. Homeowners are notoriously difficult and cheap clients, and the projects we do are often in the 5 and 6-digit range for fees.

My guess is a company that sells acoustical treatments would have a consulting option, but of course you would then expect their recommendations to be in the form of things they can sell you.

I could be wrong.

How did it work out ?

So far so good!

Between my system and the piano in the room, I have too much invested in hardware to keep futzing around by trial and error. I want it done, and done right once and for all.

I think you've chosen a wise path. Depending on how your space sounds now, you may be able to make a huge improvement in sound that you could not possibly accomplish with new gear.
 
Not trying to dissuade you from going this route, but have you considered a McIntosh MEN220, or Lyngdorf Room Perfect?
I don't really know much about either, but am under the impression that their functions are to get the best possible sound from rooms that are less than ideal.
 
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I was recently reading a review of another speaker and this literally jumped off the page at me. Spendor has realized that people don't want that much dispersion in a typical room and have taken steps to address it. Kudos to them on this front!

"It specifically avoids (undesirable in a typical listening room) ultra-wide dispersion and the bright aggressive sound of many modern loudspeakers, which is caused by strong high-frequency wall reflections."

This - in a nutshell - is my problem. In making a speaker with such wide dispersion, the Revels are putting too much high frequency energy into the room. It's a problem I never had with the 250's, and it will need to be addressed here.

So last night I decided to test this out with a rather, umm, unconventional method. I took two foam rubber yoga mats and I draped them up and over each speaker so that they formed an inverted "U" shape. I then moved them forward so that they created a sort of "hood" over the front of the speaker. As I moved them farther and farther out (stopping around 6" past the front of the speaker), it was immediately clear that they solved the room reflection issue. Imaging took a big hit here, but I had my answer and it was cheap and easy to get.

Clearly, putting yoga mats on speakers is beyond dorky so I will be looking at some room treatments once I can solve the WAF issues :). This one, will take some time and finesse....

jblnut
 
I was recently reading a review of another speaker and this literally jumped off the page at me. Spendor has realized that people don't want that much dispersion in a typical room and have taken steps to address it. Kudos to them on this front!

"It specifically avoids (undesirable in a typical listening room) ultra-wide dispersion and the bright aggressive sound of many modern loudspeakers, which is caused by strong high-frequency wall reflections."

This - in a nutshell - is my problem. In making a speaker with such wide dispersion, the Revels are putting too much high frequency energy into the room. It's a problem I never had with the 250's, and it will need to be addressed here.

So last night I decided to test this out with a rather, umm, unconventional method. I took two foam rubber yoga mats and I draped them up and over each speaker so that they formed an inverted "U" shape. I then moved them forward so that they created a sort of "hood" over the front of the speaker. As I moved them farther and farther out (stopping around 6" past the front of the speaker), it was immediately clear that they solved the room reflection issue. Imaging took a big hit here, but I had my answer and it was cheap and easy to get.

Clearly, putting yoga mats on speakers is beyond dorky so I will be looking at some room treatments once I can solve the WAF issues :). This one, will take some time and finesse....

jblnut

Cool little physics experiment you conducted there...and just goes to show this stuff really does matter. A lot. Especially if you have big money tied up in a killer pile of hifi and are only experiencing a fraction of its potential.
 
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