Center Speaker

[jozeppy26]

As a recent vintage audio enthusiast (past year or so) I’ve grown to appreciate vintage audio gear vs new audio gear both in terms of build quality and value. I have a great stereo setup I love but I’m starting to think bigger. If I were to create a vintage surround sound speaker setup, aka using a new surround sound receiver but with vintage speakers, what speakers should I consider? For front left and right, it’s obvious to me that any quality stereo speaker pair would work, and the same goes for rear/surround left and right. The subwoofer to use is better discussed on another AK thread and I’ve ready plenty of helpful info on that here already.
But for the center speaker, aka the speaker doing 60% of the work, what should I use? I know it should compare sonically to the front left and right speaker but I think I’ll grab a center first then build around that.

TLDR: What’s a good vintage speaker to use as a center speaker in a home surround sound setup, assuming front left and right speakers will be chosen later to compliment the center speaker?

 

[toxcrusadr]

Well, seems there are two considerations.

Size and shape - it has to fit where you want to put it, so huge floorstanders are out. But you might consider speakers of the same 'family'. Klipsch designed one of their smaller speakers to be a center between the KHorns. Large Advent and Smaller Advent. Etc.

The other is what a center channel does in HT: mostly dialogue. It does not need to be a full range speaker capable of massive bass. So a bookshelf speaker may be fine.

 

[portnoy]

I used to ponder this same question (when i was trying to do home theatre surround sound in my family room). I would ask you first what vintage speakers you want to use for left and right.

If I was running wharfedale w-70Cs as my left and right, I might want to use an orphan w-70c as my center channel, or conversely and pair or w-60Cs for Center and a pair of W60Cs for rears speakers.

Following this thought the same would be true if you chose KLH 6s. 23s. or 17s.

I would stick with same Brand and Time frame, so drivers would be sonically matched

Just my non-expert 2cents worth

 

[gtv2000]

Most modern surround receivers are going to have the capability to set the center speaker to "small", diverting bass to fronts and subwoofer. The also will have a microphone to do dsp type equalization separately for each speaker. So you have a lot of flexibility to get something that physically fits. Make sure you can disable all this stuff and do "audio direct" or something like that for pure stereo if you want.

 

[colohiker]

I would decide on the front mains first and then find a center that works with them. While the center carries most of the dialog, the mains are what brings the musical dimension.

 

[Kreshna]

If I were to create a vintage surround sound speaker setup, aka using a new surround sound receiver but with vintage speakers, what speakers should I consider? For front left and right, it’s obvious to me that any quality stereo speaker pair would work, and the same goes for rear/surround left and right. The subwoofer to use is better discussed on another AK thread and I’ve ready plenty of helpful info on that here already.
But for the center speaker, aka the speaker doing 60% of the work, what should I use? I know it should compare sonically to the front left and right speaker but I think I’ll grab a center first then build around that.

My mains are JBL 120Ti's. My center is JBL 4410, being placed upside down to put the tweeter at about the same level with those of the mains. I was looking for a single JBL 4410 on ebay (instead of a pair) exactly for the purpose --to use it as center channel.

However, single speaker is quite hard to find --let alone single vintage speaker. If you find a pair of speakers instead, and don't have the heart to dump the other as you use one for center channel, then I would recommend 6.1 configuration instead of 5.1 or 7.1. Real (instead of upmixed) 6.1 contents are already rare, and I have never find real 7.1 contents anyway, so I think 6.1 is sufficient for most contents.

 

[jozeppy26]

My mains are JBL 120Ti's. My center is JBL 4410, being placed upside down to put the tweeter at about the same level with those of the mains. I was looking for a single JBL 4410 on ebay (instead of a pair) exactly for the purpose --to use it as center channel.

However, single speaker is quite hard to find --let alone single vintage speaker. If you find a pair of speakers instead, and don't have the heart to dump the other as you use one for center channel, then I would recommend 6.1 configuration instead of 5.1 or 7.1. Real (instead of upmixed) 6.1 contents are already rare, and I have never find real 7.1 contents anyway, so I think 6.1 is sufficient for most contents.

How do you place the center speaker? I was thinking something like 2 great bookshelf speakers on their side as center, then a similar brand upright for left and right mains. Is this overkill?

And I completely agree about 7.1 being next to impossible to find unless I’m watching a ton of content on blu Ray (and I’m not). Netflix is entirely 5.1 I think. Cable is 5.1. Amazon video I’m not sure but I rarely use that anyway.

 

[blhagstrom]

FWIW.

I get a lot of HT stuff to flip through WA recycle.
Being an addict, I have piles of vintage speakers.

I run whatever is handy for the fronts and rears, I don't even put the rears in the rear. the vintage speakers form a wall in stereo mode and I just connect some near the middle as fronts and something to the sides as surround.

I get many center channel speakers. From cheap to higher end.
They all seem to work ok but the larger ones do a bit better.

Good center channel speakers are fairly cheap on eBay. Big ones cost more to ship

I do get high end HT component pieces and that is where all the difference comes in.
I run a multi channel power amp (cheap on eBay too.)
I run higher end old DVD players (cheap on eBay too).

I find an optical connection to a high end AV pre-amp works best and a really good AV pre-amp works the best.

I currently enjoy a Proceed AVP. (or is it PAV? Proceed names are whacked).

Bottom line is, don't sweat what center to get. Just grab something in the better level and drop it in the middle of the room, mine just lie on the floor in front of the big screen.

 

[nfafan]

FWIW.

I get a lot of HT stuff to flip through WA recycle.
Being an addict, I have piles of vintage speakers.

I run whatever is handy for the fronts and rears, I don't even put the rears in the rear. the vintage speakers form a wall in stereo mode and I just connect some near the middle as fronts and something to the sides as surround.
<snip>

Bottom line is, don't sweat what center to get. Just grab something in the better level and drop it in the middle of the room, mine just lie on the floor in front of the big screen.

Exactly. Do what sounds good to you and have fun experimenting. Have used pairs of: Sansui SP50s, KLH363s, Minimus7s, Insignias, The Smaller Advents, Bose redline cubes, A25s, currently have a pair of EPI100s rotated in for the role of "center speaker". Today's FR/LR are Pio BS21s, the RR/LR pair are Walsh 2s.

 

[Kreshna]

How do you place the center speaker? I was thinking something like 2 great bookshelf speakers on their side as center, then a similar brand upright for left and right mains. Is this overkill?

I know what you're thinking; I was thinking the same thing some years ago. When you put your bookshelf speakers on their side as center, it becomes a very large M-T-T-M loudspeaker (or W-M-T-T-M-W, in case of 3-way large bookshelf speakers), which resembles a typical M-T-M center channel speaker. I almost did that with a pair of JBL L20T's back then.

(The JBL L20T's are now in the garage, by the way, serving as secondary system.)

However, M-T-T-M is not actually the same with M-T-M. With such arrangement --putting a pair of bookshelf speakers on their side as center, that is-- you might smear the center image, since you have two tweeters in the same horizontal plane, both delivering the same signal.

A better placement would be putting one bookshelf speaker above the TV as center, but upside down, putting its tweeter closer to those of the mains. Single, "orphaned" speaker is not easy to find though, let alone vintage one, so you may end up with a pair of speakers instead. Well, what to do with the other, then? You could make it center back speakers in 6.1 arrangement, instead of 7.1 or 5.1.

And I completely agree about 7.1 being next to impossible to find unless I’m watching a ton of content on blu Ray (and I’m not). Netflix is entirely 5.1 I think. Cable is 5.1. Amazon video I’m not sure but I rarely use that anyway.

Indeed. CMIIW, but IIRC, most cinemas only have three surround channels (although not exactly 6.1, because cinemas typically use multiple speakers for each channel). As such, most contents are either 5.1 or 6.1 as well. Even on blu rays, I'm not sure if there are many true discrete 7.1 contents our there.

Anyway, could anyone help me out with this?

 

[Kreshna]

So has the OP found a suitable center channel speaker?

 

[tyella]

The OP is a subscriber. Perhaps the Orphan Speaker Bingo thread on Barter Town could provide a nice single speaker for use as a center.

 

[toddalin]

 

[Kreshna]

WHOA!

The mains are JBL L200, but what is the center? Did you build it yourself?

 

[toddalin]

The mains are L200/300s. They have the 2405 slot tweeters, 2420 compression drivers (tangential) on the long horns (coated in rubber), and 2205s reconed as 2235s. All are AlNiCo and all were recharged about 10 years ago. The cabinets have been expanded to about 6 cu ft and raised.

The center has the same components in the right side with about 6 cu ft. The left side is about 4 cu ft and has a W15GTi as a sub. The 2405s in/on top of the cabinet are switchable with the top one closer in height to the two outter speakers. The 2235 in the cabinet is switchable in that if no center channel is being used, it can run as another sub. There is also a 100 watt non-inductive resistor that can be switched in series with the 2235 to bring it closer to the volume of the W15GTi.

Yes, I had a cabinet maker do it up about 20 odd years ago when it had a pair of 130As.

 

[jozeppy26]

Indeed. CMIIW, but IIRC, most cinemas only have three surround channels (although not exactly 6.1, because cinemas typically use multiple speakers for each channel). As such, most contents are either 5.1 or 6.1 as well. Even on blu rays, I'm not sure if there are many true discrete 7.1 contents our there.

Thanks and you did nail my thinking. The problem with a rear center is how to place it in the real world.

 

[jozeppy26]

The OP is a subscriber. Perhaps the Orphan Speaker Bingo thread on Barter Town could provide a nice single speaker for use as a center.

I will check this out, thanks!

 

[sKiZo]

Something to consider is speaker shielding. "Video quality" centers tend to be close to a lotof RFI/EMI sources that can f'up things up some if this isn't addressed, especially when working with other equipment that predates the the AVI boom. Especially important if there's a video monitor in the mix ...

I use a Bose video rated speaker with my classic system and it does a nice job right in the main rack. That's driven by an Eico HF20 amp which works well with my main channel tube amp.

PS - you asked about location. This shows mine in relation to the main speakers, which gives me a nice blend. Rule of thumb is at least even or above the main tweets for the best results.

 

[toddalin]

When I designed the center cabinet, the components had to be mounted low because a Mitsubishi 45" table top CRT projector sat on it. And while some people may say that AlNiCo JBLs don't cause stray magnetic fields..., they are wrong because they certainly affected my TV. The horn was where the bottom port is with the three ports across the top.

When I went to a front projector, this became a non-issue and I raised the horn. I've also had LCD displays sit on/near it with no problem.

I think stray magnetism is a non-issue with anything other than a CRT in proximity..., but I could be wrong. I've certainly not tried all types of displays.