Channel Islands Audio Setup

Hi, know what? Made a bigger mistake than I thought. Bel Canto may be using Tripath now.. hard to keep track of what everyone is stuffing into a box these days. They used to use Icepower, I think. Doesn't change much though.

Anyway, you can see the typical performance curves of Tripath stuff in that link I provided as well!

Rat44, Carver was fairly innovative early on and have their own designs. There'd be no relation at all to what's in the CIA monoblocks.

Cheers
 
After checking out some other forums, I've come to find out that Nuforce is generally disliked by those "in the know." I had know idea, but am glad I know now. Thanks for enlightening me!
 
When it comes to any brand or technology its best to use your own ears rather then taking what others say as the Gospel..
 
Guilty as charged...

PLC_D200.jpg

This and the Monolithic pre-amp make my Quad look totally overblown with features. :scratch2:

ps: this is not MY 33, but rather that of a Quad owner that found a wooden case for it. Quite smart case, I thought.
 
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When it comes to any brand or technology its best to use your own ears rather then taking what others say as the Gospel..

I'd absolutely agree with that, provided we're discussing products of equal technical merit one way or the other. Since that's the furthest thing from this case, allow me to add a new twist to that old adage. When a design is critically flawed by its very nature or implementation, it doesn't quite get to the trust your ears stage, in my view.

I stress this because older technologies have had decades of refinement and optimization, there are no new ideas and no new mistakes to make, only old ones to repeat. The odds of anything completely technologically unsound ever hitting the market largely favor the consumer as a result. Not forgetting to mention, they are extremely simple in comparison to begin with, one look and you can see what's what and that's all there is to it. Then it easily comes down to trusting your ears without having to worry much about what's inside.

The "basic" theory is not at all new for class D, but it wasn't practical for full range high end audio for barely a decade now. There are all kinds of ways of going about achieving the basic theory of it, some far more refined than others, but even with a completely perfected design on paper there's still every opportunity to fail completely by way of implemention, every step along the way. This is no joke. Realize that the kinds of challenges class d designers face don't even exist with conventional topologies.

A few very competent engineers have proven true high quality audio from class d is now achievable, their efforts opened up a market, for which there's now a demand. Any junk pushed onto the market will sell. People know that all they need to get sales, is any piece of junk on the market, and an ignorant, uninformed consumer. You are their mark, the reviewers and internet their tools.

Also consider that a bad class d amplifier can be considered euphonic in many ways for any number of reasons, and that your ears can readily mislead you. If you think your ears are unfallible you'll be the first to fall. You have to live with it a long while before the honeymoon is over and you can really appreciate it for what it truly is, one way or the other. Enjoyed your Nuforce for that 1 month trial period? Talk to me six months or a year from now.. noo, it's not because you need a new power cable like they tell you, it's just because it sucks, from the ground up. If it can't interface well with standard gear, and can only be listened to on their own pre amp.... sucks all the more.... what's the next excuse.

This is best case scenario where we first assume the amps are sufficiently well designed to hold themselves together under typical circumstances, hopefully also worst case circumstances, not always the case either. There are several examples of people who fell for marketing and simply trusted their ears, unaware of incompetent design, that were left to wonder before very long why their $30 000 speakers went up in smoke. "But I dropped 5g's on it, it has to be good" Nope. Sure, they got their amps repaired or replaced for free, sorry 'bout those speakers, glad your house didn't burn, family ok? Version 39345.ak8yxz won't have that issue, thanks for testing it for us, thanks for trusting your ears, look, an award.

Also consider that while the internet has made it "easy" for the consumer to become "informed" compared to before, it has also made it easy for the con artists to be the ones informing them, don't think for a second it doesn't happen all the time.

So the very best thing you can do is to make the most informed decisions possible, and that means, actually get educated on the matter as much as possible, which is not easy to do either because it requires a lot of dedication even if you do have a technical background. Typically this works in their favor over yours. Know that the industry as a whole doesn't protect you, you've seen that here with the award winning, FCC approved EMI inferno known as Nuforce. Believe that they are not alone in what they do. I've only used them as an example because they were brought up already, and a prime example they are! There are many others, some even worse, believe it or not. As I said before, there are the few very rare exceptions to the rule, learn who they are and follow their teachings, which don't necessarily come by way of marketing or reviews.

If you choose not to educate yourself you choose to be vulnerable. You'll be lucky to know someone that is informed and willing to tell you the truth about things, allowing you to place products of ~equal merit on the table, if any exist at all, so you can simply trust your ears. Yeah, use your ears, but use your brain first.

Inspiribomb, I'm glad I could help. I see you have some new equipment in your collection now. How do you like them so far? Like I said, never heard them myself. :arrow:
 
I'd absolutely agree with that, provided we're discussing products of equal technical merit one way or the other. Since that's the furthest thing from this case, allow me to add a new twist to that old adage. When a design is critically flawed by its very nature or implementation, it doesn't quite get to the trust your ears stage, in my view.

I stress this because older technologies have had decades of refinement and optimization, there are no new ideas and no new mistakes to make, only old ones to repeat. The odds of anything completely technologically unsound ever hitting the market largely favor the consumer as a result. Not forgetting to mention, they are extremely simple in comparison to begin with, one look and you can see what's what and that's all there is to it. Then it easily comes down to trusting your ears without having to worry much about what's inside.


If you choose not to educate yourself you choose to be vulnerable. You'll be lucky to know someone that is informed and willing to tell you the truth about things, allowing you to place products of ~equal merit on the table, if any exist at all, so you can simply trust your ears. Yeah, use your ears, but use your brain first.

Inspiribomb, I'm glad I could help. I see you have some new equipment in your collection now. How do you like them so far? Like I said, never heard them myself. :arrow:


I completely disagree with you. Who are you to tell someone that they should not enjoy any piece of equipment be it class A through whatever, because they are not of the same merit ?.......


If someone wants to be blissfully ignorant of the technical aspects of an amp and enjoy it then thats what this hobby is all about. :yes:

Its one thing to voice your opinion. Its another to state it as a fact.
 
Hyper,

Think of it this way, Porsche 911s are fundamentally flawed vehicles. Their engineers would like nothing more than to move the engine up in front of that rear axle. It would make their jobs easier, make for a much better handling vehicle with less engineering. But the Porsche buyers keep on buying the travesty because it's a damn hoot to drive.

If someone likes a nuforce amp better than a CIA amp, despite all of the inherent flaws, what do the technical merits of the CIA have to do with the purchase?

buyer: I really like the way this nuforce amp sounds!
3rd party: No you don't, it's got very high EMI, you should listed to CIA.
Buyer: But I like the nuforce sound, better.
3rd party: Sorry, it's not technically as good so you must be confused.
 
I completely disagree with you. Who are you to tell someone that they should not enjoy any piece of equipment be it class A through whatever, because they are not of the same merit ?......."

I was very specific in setting apart class d with anything else, and for good reasons that I also explained. This is not the tired debate between classes, nor did I dictate what anyone "should" enjoy. I informed what they likely could not enjoy and told them what the only reasonable alternative was based on, that might stand a chance of meeting with expectations.

You chose to miss the points completely, and putting words in my mouth to make it anything that it isn't won't take away from any of the facts I've stated, but then that was your only recourse given the facts, because, who are you?

"If someone wants to be blissfully ignorant of the technical aspects of an amp and enjoy it then thats what this hobby is all about.

Its one thing to voice your opinion. Its another to state it as a fact. "

That say's it all. No that's what this business is about, I explained that too, along with: Provided that it's of enough merit that they can remain blissfully ignorant and still enjoy it. A repeating theme.

What this hobby is about is getting what we expected for our money, the very best we can, yep, even according to our personal preferences.

EMI or engulfed speakers via faulty designs are not a subjective preference, anymore than being shocked half to death by it is. I'm sure there are those out there who will still be listening to the music after their speakers have exploded, while their house burns down, we should tolerate such people but we don't have to support their illness.

Do you think high EMI can be at all enjoyable to listen to for anyone? Try listening to your radio tuned half way into a station for the day and see if you think that kind of sound quality is worth $5k, subjectively..

Typically when you get to that part of the road trip you turn the radio off, and you'd do the same with an amp that sounded similar. I'll consider that a fact too unless you're either deaf or insane. Always the exception!

dnewma04, a more worthy effort for sure. Thing is, Porches were purpose built and they took some refinement over the years to get there, but they found their niche and they meet with their objectives. It's as simple as that.

Customer: Your porche is a lemon, it blew up my garage
Dealer: But it's red and people like it, it won races too.
Customer: I lost my legs in the blast
Dealer: How about a blue one?
Customer: Cool (the exception)
Thrd party: Should have got a Ford, they just burn slow, cool hand controls

I think we all know where this is going. Good luck Inspiribomb, you'll probably not need it :)

Cheerio.
 
What strikes me as odd most of all is how you make a great deal of stink about amps you make sure to say you have not heard.

And to say to those that do like these amps in question THEY CANNOT or MUST not like them is almost laughable.

Please tell us all high and mighty what we may listen to next that meets your approval.


Grumpy
 
I can appreciate all sides of the story here and appreciate the input. Ultimately, yes, it is for the buyer's ears to decide what sounds good.

I actually did purchase a set of Channel Islands Audio D-200's, got them for a smoking price on Audiogon. I should have them in a week and will certainly post my impressions. Thanks again to all who have contributed!
 
Glad to hear that. Hope your amps bring you many hours of enjoyment. :music:
 
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