Chinese fake Accuphase A-65

Misused in this context for sure. There is nothing honorable or respectable about making a rep.

And yet, the Chinese can copy a watch so well that the on-line authenticators over at a watch forum I belong to cannot tell from pictures alone. The gurus say that clone movements have double digit defect rate. They also say that if they wanted to make a quality movement, they could but so far no maker has emerged with this level of commitment.

Here is something I got from the auction site. (The best 1:1 reps are not available there for obvious reasons.) This one is not a good homage by any means but it is very accurate and it is well finished. Whether it is a quality piece, only time will tell, pun intended. Whatever you say about IP is deserved and true but you have to marvel at what they can do for the price.

FYCE5iF.jpg
Seagull is India, correct?
 
I was in Bangkok many years ago and was offered a "genuine copy Rolex" by a person near my hotel. Almost bought it being that it was a genuine rather than fake copy. I mean, who wants a fake copy.

Watch conversations at the local Starbucks must be hilarious. Is that a real Roller? No. Is yours real? No.
 
Tianjin Seagull is a Chinese watch company, makes some good watches.

Shanghai Seagull makes cameras. They have a cult following.
 
What people have to remember/understand about China is that in a generation they have gone from a low level industrial society to a giant. What will happen in the next 10-20 years will be very interesting to watch. China's population is getting better educated, more demanding of quality and more aware of things like design. It now has a huge middle class with more disposable income than most of the population would have dreamed about 20 to 30 years ago.

I was in Shanghai recently, the number of local design startups is staggering, the investment in R&D by Chinese companies is skyrocketing. Local demand is part of this push. Across the border from me is Shenzhen, the economy there is being forced into shifting from build it cheap with cheap labour towards higher value goods as the cheap labour pool dries up. And as taxes on "luxury" goods are declining in China the push towards locally made goods with high quality and individuality is only going to increase.

At least that's the view from my chair.
 
I would be betting against you on this if I was a betting man. Things are changing fast in China.

I'm not betting against them either. My posts regarding the OP's A-65 copy are more cup half full rather than half empty. But there is something missing.

What people have to remember/understand about China is that in a generation they have gone from a low level industrial society to a giant. What will happen in the next 10-20 years will be very interesting to watch. China's population is getting better educated, more demanding of quality and more aware of things like design. It now has a huge middle class with more disposable income than most of the population would have dreamed about 20 to 30 years ago.

I was in Shanghai recently, the number of local design startups is staggering, the investment in R&D by Chinese companies is skyrocketing. Local demand is part of this push. Across the border from me is Shenzhen, the economy there is being forced into shifting from build it cheap with cheap labour towards higher value goods as the cheap labour pool dries up. And as taxes on "luxury" goods are declining in China the push towards locally made goods with high quality and individuality is only going to increase.

At least that's the view from my chair.

I toured the country with the family in 1979. China is unrecognizable today. It is quite an achievement.

Shenzhen, aka Watch City. I'm pretty sure the video I linked is Shenzhen.
 
Yes China might be able to produce better, original gear down the track, just like Japan went from cheap tin-plate toy cars after WW2 to the powerhouse they now are, but my question is, does the world have the appetite for quality again? We were spoilt by what Japan could do in the 70s,80s and early 90s.

People have had a generation or two of cheap/average stuff and their expectations have been lowered in terms of longevity, quality and repairability. They buy Korean cars here and say "if I get 7 years out of it, that's fine". Will they ever stump up the cash down the track to pay for actual quality again? I don't believe they have the deep understanding of what good design really is.

Japan decided en-mass to lift their collective game and gave the world quality at a very competitive, but not cheap, price. China is so much bigger. How can they collectively not bow to the lowest price with quality not suffering? In other words, how long will it take for some brave companies to stand up above the others without being cut down by competition? When will they stop copying and start actually innovating and designing things that don't look tacky and DIY? There is no evidence yet in our sphere of interest here is there?
 
When will they stop copying and start actually innovating and designing things that don't look tacky and DIY? There is no evidence yet in our sphere of interest here is there?
They've been innovating and designing network routers (Huawei), mobile phones (Huawei), and laptops (Lenovo) that don't look tacky and DIY for quite a while.

I suspect there's a certain demand and supply at work here; there must be enough buyers of tacky and DIY-looking pseudo-high-end (but actually low-end) gear to make it worth manufacturing. I bet there's a faux-audiophile equivalent to the folks that buy enough fake handbags, watches, and other cloned gorp to drive an entire industry, and -- sadly -- it probably represents bigger demand, at least so far, than the demand for inevitably more expensive innovation and quality.
 
Yes China might be able to produce better, original gear down the track, just like Japan went from cheap tin-plate toy cars after WW2 to the powerhouse they now are, but my question is, does the world have the appetite for quality again? We were spoilt by what Japan could do in the 70s,80s and early 90s.

People have had a generation or two of cheap/average stuff and their expectations have been lowered in terms of longevity, quality and repairability. They buy Korean cars here and say "if I get 7 years out of it, that's fine". Will they ever stump up the cash down the track to pay for actual quality again? I don't believe they have the deep understanding of what good design really is.

Japan decided en-mass to lift their collective game and gave the world quality at a very competitive, but not cheap, price. China is so much bigger. How can they collectively not bow to the lowest price with quality not suffering? In other words, how long will it take for some brave companies to stand up above the others without being cut down by competition? When will they stop copying and start actually innovating and designing things that don't look tacky and DIY? There is no evidence yet in our sphere of interest here is there?

GD Audio. Not cheap but good value for the money.


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Mister Pig
 
And we're commenting on valve amps looking DIY?

All valve amps with exposed valves and transformers look like unfinished DIY projects to me, no matter how much chrome and blue LEDs there may be...
 
Korean car manufacturers are so confident of their quality, they give you a seven year warranty.

Absolutely. We have one downstairs that's almost 7 years old now- still under warranty.

The comment was more along the lines is that people think 7 years for a car is a good life- I have friends that have said: "7 years warranty and you could throw it out and get a new one- it won't be worth anything by then anyway"

Warranty and overall life have become linked in people's minds. iPhones- 12 months and you get a new one. Washing machines- three years and replace it. Dishwasher- 2 years and parts aren't available etc.

Much as 7 years unlimited km is an excellent warranty, it shouldn't be seen as the usable life. You and I know that, but Joe Public- not so sure.
 
Absolutely. We have one downstairs that's almost 7 years old now- still under warranty.

The comment was more along the lines is that people think 7 years for a car is a good life- I have friends that have said: "7 years warranty and you could throw it out and get a new one- it won't be worth anything by then anyway"

Warranty and overall life have become linked in people's minds. iPhones- 12 months and you get a new one. Washing machines- three years and replace it. Dishwasher- 2 years and parts aren't available etc.

Much as 7 years unlimited km is an excellent warranty, it shouldn't be seen as the usable life. You and I know that, but Joe Public- not so sure.

Excellent point.

-Dave
 
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