Class D, IcePower, etc- who's running what, and why?

[thedelihaus]

I love my solid state class A and A/B amps. Lovely sound, plenty of grunt and control. I love AudioDon's modded tube amps. Also plenty of grunt, and beautiful presentation. I may actually add one of his magic amps to my setup- he's good at tweaking them to be considerably better than many others I've heard.

However, I LOVE the thought of these efficient, green, small footprint amps and the excitement around them- Class D, IcePower, etc, and products from Bel Canto, Channel Islands, PS Audio, etc.

I've read some reviews from respected AKers of where they felt there were some mild shortcomings, also from some industry designers, but as with anything, these will be reduced or weeded out with time.

I'd like to hear what you are running, the unit's strengths and weaknesses, and what technology it's based on. I've asked this loosely before, and presented differently, but feel with the recent increase in marketing and experimenting with this type of amp (Rogue Audio has just released a class D/tube hybrid) will hopefully make this an interesting thread addition.

This will most likely be a future move for me, and I've come close a few times with deals on used Bel Canto products.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation. I'm looking forward to all opinions, good, bad, indifferent.

 

[GHilinski]

My only experience with class D was not a good one. I purchased a Sony ES class D surround receiver when my older Sony ES unit moved to the bedroom. The sound was thin, brittle and did not drive my speakers the way the older unit did. Yes, M&K's are 4 ohm and a bit tough to drive but the older amp handled them with no problem. Also, this was a very early amp so I am sure the technology has improved since this purchase. I've since moved back to Rotel amps and receivers and are so much happier with the sound.

Again, very early data point and with a company not at the standards of Bel Canto.

 

[RichPA]

On my second set of Class D monoblocks in the main system. These are Channel Islands D200s, and I love them. Previously had Bel Canto REF300Ms. I've had some pretty good traditional (class A or A/B) amps - Forte, Bryston, Hafler - but I prefer these. Why? They sound great, don't use much electricity, and they're small enough to hide behind the speakers.

 

[Jack G]

I started out with the Bel canto eVo2i (tripath). It was OK, somewhat lean, with a shallow soundstage-it ended up in my HT system, where is seems quite happy. Later I( bought a Wyred4Sound STI-500. An integrated amp based on ICE power. Recently I bought W4S's mPre and mAmps. There are third generation ICE modules with an updated input section by W4S. They're cute! Tiny little amps with lots of power-lots of delicacy and detail too. VERY transparent and neutral and natural sounding. I've got a dozen or so other amps at home, mostly tubed, but I like these better. The mPre/mAmps are still new, and just settling in, but so far they are by far my favorites.
Jack

 

[ranch 22b]

I'm using a silver Onkyo A-9555. 'Bought it new a few years ago for around $500. I saw the black versions going for as low as $416 - at 85wpc, they seemed quite affordable. I like this amp - I'd describe the sound as smooth and rich. The highs seem a little rolled off and I've found it matches best with a lively source/speakers.

Right now, I'm using it with DCM TF-600's and love the presentation for jazz and acoustic. For rock, I use it to power Paradigm 9se Mk2's. 'Pretty good match there also - a bit soft on the top, but zero listener fatigue which is important to me.

The 9555 is not a small amp by any means and doesn't run all that cool like some of the other Class D amps I've read about. It seems very well built except for the speaker wire binding posts which don't instill much confidence. It only has a damping factor of 25 which may play into its finicky nature of speaker matching.

 

[cubdog]

Paul, I think you know I love my Bel Cantos. I'll Post a bit more in depth reply tomorrow.

cubdog

 

[Scotteq]

I have a Peachtree Nova 125.

It's a Class D, and sounds fine. I have it paired with a set of Kef LS50s, though, which are a little challenging to get the best from.

 

[StevenZ]

I've run a few different Class D designs including Tripath, ICEPower and Class D Audio's modules. While I absolutely love the Tripath 2020A chip it didn't compare to the ICEPower 125ASX2 on a few different levels. Mainly being the low end grunt. The ICEPower modules seem to get the bass and mid-range just right.

Now, I have used a a couple different Class D Audio offerings (Classdaudio.com) and am flabbergasted. The first being the SDS-224 module with supplied linear power supply. This amp nailed it for me. I honestly feel it has every single quality of an amazing SET amp but provides much higher power output. It gets the bass, mids, and treble ridiculously right and I feel it was one of the best amplifiers I've heard yet. Unfortunately I had to sell it to get myself out from a financial bind but alas I am back in action. I bought myself a fully built SDS-250C which is based on the SDS-254 module 125wpc @ 8ohm, 250wpc @ 4ohm output. This amp I feel has the exact same sound signature as the 224 but with much more ability to play brute force dynamics in music. The sound is effortless and it strikes me odd when it's timbre is so tonally accurate that I just sit there and grin from ear to ear. Simply put, it has taken a place in my 2ch rig that I do not see anything else replacing for many many years.

That's not to say that I won't try other stuff out as my interest gets peaked, say Hypex nCore. But, I will say this. It isn't about budget in this case, although the Class D Audio amps are "budget" oriented. It's the performance. I can't say "for the money" blah blah blah. The truth is, Class D Audio in my eyes offers an amazing product that I think many people should take note of. It's efficient, runs cool, comes in any model to suite your power needs, and is even made here on US soil.

I give these Class D Audio amps 2 thumbs WAY up. Give'em a shot. You might like them.

Cheers,
Steven

 

[estreeter]

Thanks for the heads-up on the classdaudio site, Steven. I assumed that it was totally DiY, but they will build the amp for you for an extra 100USD - the SDS-224 you mentioned comes in at around 650USD complete + shipping. For US-based customers, that looks like a very good deal.

 

[StevenZ]

Thanks for the heads-up on the classdaudio site, Steven. I assumed that it was totally DiY, but they will build the amp for you for an extra 100USD - the SDS-224 you mentioned comes in at around 650USD complete + shipping. For US-based customers, that looks like a very good deal.

Hey, no problem. Actually the prebuilt SDS-224 is $565 + shipping. http://classdaudio.com/audio-amplifiers/sds-120c-class-d-audio-power-amplifier.html His power amp numbers and DIY modules numbers don't line up for some reason so it might be a little confusing at first. But indeed his SDS-120C power amp uses the SDS-224 module. For $30 more you can get the SDS-250C power amp which doubles the output and still has all the goodies, i.e. RCA input, XLR input, and adjustable gain per channel.

-Steven

 

[mnilan]

NAD C390DD qualify?

Folks:
Not sure that the NAD C390DD and the NuForce DDA-100 are quite the same thing being discussed here but I think these are VERY interesting, especially for desktop or bedroom systems. I would really love to hear the NAD...
Mike

 

[estreeter]

It's all 'Class D', mnilan, but NAD and Nuforce go a step further by adding the ability to process a digital signal directly using PWM - NAD even do the same thing in their M51 DAC. In stock form, there are no analog inputs on the C390DD, but you can buy a (screwdriver required) plugin MDC module to add analog inputs to the C390DD while it's big brother, the M2, comes stock with said input.

The majority of the 'other guys' - Peachtree, Wyred4Sound, Channel Islands, bel canto etc - use Class D in more conventional integrated, stereo and mono amplifiers, even where a DAC is included in the same box. The NAD/Nuforce amps dont actually do a 'digital-to-analog conversion' : I guess time will tell whether that approach is superior to conventional DACs.

 

[estreeter]

Hadnt heard of this amp till I staggered across this review:

http://dagogo.com/digital-amplifier-company-cherry-ultra-amplifier-review

'DAC' amplifiers, indeed - cute nomenclature, Mr Digital Audio Company.

 

[Jack G]

There's also www.d-sonic.net for those who want massive amounts of power. It got a good review from 6 moons.
Jack
PS. They use a different module than most.

 

[cubdog]

There's also www.d-sonic.net for those who want massive amounts of power. It got a good review from 6 moons.
Jack
PS. They use a different module than most.

Nice review. I'm always amazed at some of these products I've yet to hear about. There are a lot of great options for fans of Class D amplification.

cubdog

 

[cubdog]

Paul, I just wrote a very long and detailed, for me anyway, review of my amps that mysteriously disappeared. I'll try to reconstruct it and get it posted for you. :sigh:

cubdog

 

[StevenZ]

Paul, I just wrote a very long and detailed review of my amps that mysteriously disappeared. I'll try to reconstruct it and get it posted for you. :sigh:

cubdog

Oy, I hate when that happens. Looking forward to your review.

 

[thedelihaus]

Paul, I just wrote a very long and detailed, for me anyway, review of my amps that mysteriously disappeared. I'll try to reconstruct it and get it posted for you. :sigh:

cubdog

No worries, buddy! I do look forward to your post, however. :yes:

 

[ranch 22b]

For lower power applications, someone here at AK recently recommended the TBI Millenia MG3:

http://www.tbisound.com/dsp_products_millenia.asp

 

[cubdog]

I'm a big fan of Class D amps. I own amps based on ICEpower and Tripath as well as amps powered by National Semiconductor and Yamaha chips. These amps really fit my current lifestyle. Being retired and living in a northern climate I listen to my system for around 10 hours a day in the winter months.

My Bel Canto gear are green designs and are meant to be powered up 24/7. The M300 mono blocks put out 150wpc and double to 300wpc at 4 ohms. They currently drive Sony SS-M7 speakers that you are very familiar with Paul. Before that they powered my Klipsch RF7 IIs and then CF3s. In each case I they were a very good match and demonstrated their versitility within my system. To my ear the Bel Cantos have a very neutral character. I have said many times that what I like best about them is that I never think about them. I have owned many amps and these are the only ones I feel that way about.

My Jaton Operetta is a 70wpc modular design. It can be expanded to 3, 4, or 5channels by simply dropping in an additional module. It utilizes the National Semiconductor LM3886 chip that is used in many Gainclone designs. This thing is really well made and weighs in at over 50lbs. I have to say I really love this amp. I'm tempted to buy three more modules, $140.00 each, and sell my Denon AVR. Were it not for my wife I would have already done so.

I currently own three Tripath chip amps. The original Sonic T, a second generation Sonic T and a 45wpc HLLY Tamp90. The HLLY is a bit unusual in that it is an integrated amplifier but was designed to be used with a preamp. So what you get is a typical sounding tripath amp that does not sound anywhere near as powerful as 45wpc. However, put a preamp in front of it and WOW it really comes alive. I don't know exactly how many watts this thing puts out but I used it with some JBL L96 speakers when I was recovering from surgery and it would really crank! I should mention I was using a Yaqin MS-12B tube preamp. I have yet to try it with a solid state pre. What can I say about the Sonic T amps. They have a great reputation and deserve it. But, the best thing about them is how they opened the door of awareness to these small little chip amps.

Lastly, I own a little Scythe amp that uses a Yamaha chip. This is a very sweet sounding amp and I like it's sound over the Tripath sound. If I recall the Scythe amps are rated a 7 wpc but I think it is even less than that. I took it to a Chicago AK get together a couple of years ago. We hooked it up to some Klipsch Fortes and everyone that heard it was impressed. I use it on occassion with a small cdp as a headphone amp.

I almost forgot I also own one of those $15 Radio Shack Accurian amps. I don't know what kind of chip they use. I need to get it out and play with it someday.

I know there are critics of Class D amplifiers who find fault with the technology. Honestly though the same can be said about tube and solid state as well. When I consider, sound quality, price, size, and value, Class D makes sense for me. I may change amplifers again someday but I'm pretty sure if I do it will be to another Class D amp. At least for my main system anyway.

cubdog