Cornwall heaven. What compares?

ducati2

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at last count, I have about 12 sets of larger vintage speakers, electro voice, KLH, fraziers, wharfedales, kirksaeters, etc. but even after total rebuilds none compare to my klipsch Cornwalls. I have decided it has to do with the 15" woofers and the larger size cabs. Most the other pairs I have are 12" woofers with a slightly smaller cab.

My question- what speakers have you found to produce as good of sound, (powered by tube amp) as Cornwalls for similar or less cost? Does it exist?
 
the classic fifteen inch studio monitor two way ruled supreme for over three decades around the world and not by accident. The three way might measure smoother but the two way images better in the near field (at closer listening distances) and just plain get more of the important aspects of music reproduction correct and are just that much more believable to listen to. You only have to look at the resale value of a set of Altec19 in good condition. Now there is a cost involved and that is that you need way better (more costly) drivers to make a good two way Vs a three way (they have to cover a much wider bandwidth). But better drives pay off in better sound quality so the money is well invested. You might want to take a look at the Cornscala D by Bob Crites. Superb quality drivers and horn, well beyond what you will find in any home Klipch loudspeaker. I have not heard a pair but I would very much like to. Regards moray james.
 
at last count, I have about 12 sets of larger vintage speakers, electro voice, KLH, fraziers, wharfedales, kirksaeters, etc. but even after total rebuilds none compare to my klipsch Cornwalls. I have decided it has to do with the 15" woofers and the larger size cabs. Most the other pairs I have are 12" woofers with a slightly smaller cab.

My question- what speakers have you found to produce as good of sound, (powered by tube amp) as Cornwalls for similar or less cost? Does it exist?
I've never A/Bd them to my Cornwalls but, if it came down to selling one pair, I would have to think long and hard to decide between them and my Altec Model 14s, which are 2-ways with 12" woofers, and can be found for about the low to mid range asking price of the Klipsch. They are slightly less efficient than the Cornwalls, 95 vs 98.5 dB (1 watt at 4ft), but have much higher power handling capability, and a wider reported frequency response.
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You willing to modify them a bit? (not really as it could be easily reversed)

Get a Klipsch K510 and set it on top, get an active crossover and take it to a 2-way speaker.

Get a 510 and set it on top. You'll be impressed at what the little horn can do (2" throat verses the puny throats on the Cornwall)

It will keep it all Klipsch. Decide you don't like it? Reattach crossover, sell 510 and move on.
 

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In the 60's and early 70's only a few models matched a Cornwall. EV6 comes to mind. Used the same tweeter and a 18" woofer with similar midranges. Altec models just did't have the bass definition or the extreme highs till the Model 19 and 14 came along. JBL ring radiators could handle more power but the HF performance was miserable compared to EV t35 used by Klipsch. JBL speakers just didn't interface that well in homes compared to Klipsch speakers. There were many other three way systems that could equal the quality of the Cornwall or even surpass it, but they were dynamically challenged. Bozak 4000 with 200z tweeters but they came 5 to 6 db short in Dynamic capability. And the story continues with just about every other model by other manufacturers being way short in one way or another. Ev Georgians were more of a speaker but were more costly and 3 times as big. Mac ML-2 had an octave lower bass and better highs above 15 KHZ, but were 10 db less efficient with maybe 2db more handling power. Popular book shelf and floor models were all dynamically challenged. JBL finally developed some speakers in the late 70's that could compete but with a premium price tag. Frazier made some speakers that had the quantity and the spectrum but I thought the quality wasn't there. Now I realize there was some criticism of the horn sound of a Cornwall, but with care in placement and orientation and not sitting to close optimum very satisfying performance could be had by the listener. Its still that way today, and there are very few new speakers today in the same price category that can match a Cornwall. Its easier to surpass a Cornwall today with mega Power amps and extremely costly speakers. Take Magico S7
for example at $58,000. Or the Former Snell A7 Phantom at $50,000. They both require 1000 watts each to approach a Cornwall with less than 100. I guess B&W 802's or 800's could almost match a Cornwall and surpass it in one or two small ways. But again look at the cost and power required. Some of JBL's DD series speakers should be considered at any where from 3 to 7 times the price. Older folks might consider a JBL L300 or 4430 or 4435 the equal of a Cornwall. The 4435, yes, the other two no. A pair of Mac XRT 28's if you can afford the power or can give up the dynamics. I guess you could stack 6 pairs of Ar-3a's with 600 watts a channel and come close. But it would be so impractical.

As with all speakers room acoustics play a very important roll in getting the sound as best as it can be and determining the final performance of a system. Owners understand that better today than ever before and fortunately Cornwalls are fairly flexible allowing the consumer to approach satisfaction with out the effort needed by most other systems.

When reviewers talk about moving speaker 6 inches side ways or front to back and you have to point the speaker within a 10 degree window to get best performance, I want to throw what I'm reading in the trash. I knew Paul was a great man when he gave away BULL SHIT pins. That what it is, no fancy English or French superlatives. Just deep dark do-do.
 
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My CF-3's sounded better in my living room than the '78 Cornwalls and KLF-30'S. Still have the CF-3's. Made the Cornwalls sound bland and their bass was lacking in comparison.
 
I've never A/Bd them to my Cornwalls but, if it came down to selling one pair, I would have to think long and hard to decide between them and my Altec Model 14s, which are 2-ways with 12" woofers, and can be found for about the low to mid range asking price of the Klipsch. They are slightly less efficient than the Cornwalls, 95 vs 98.5 dB (1 watt at 4ft), but have much higher power handling capability, and a wider reported frequency response.
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I have both also, no contest, Cornwalls will eat the Altec 14s for breakfast. The 14s are nice sounding speakers but just don't have the ummph to keep up with the Cornwalls.
 
Any time you have two drivers crossed over that high covering the same spectrum unless your ears are located with in a small window where the arrival time of the speakers is the same narrow comb filtering will be a problem. Another issue is cone breakup. Asking a 12" woofer to produce much more that 300 hz can cause severe cone breakup and is the same issue I have with the Cornwall. But both being a compromised the Cornwall wins by having a lower crossover frequency and one driver versus two. Now a CF-3 can play louder but the compression of both units is approaching 4 db at full rated power. So unless your average max power is 10 to 15% of the max. average power rating you are pushing speaker into the start of compression. That's usually a woofer issue. I would suspect the CF series having less compression because of multiple woofers. But personally I am not fond of the cone material used in the CF series. When it brakes up it can be rather severe, where the cone of the Cornwall is more forgiving. And as far as two way systems I agree the imaging can be better especially if the acoustic centers of the drivers are aligned. And in that respect Corn wall fails badly, But as Dr Klepper and Don Davis of Altec and Syn aud con fame have proven, if you can't get the drivers aligned carefully its better the alignment be way off, to eliminate comb filtering and lobing at the crossover frequencies. Another advantage later models of Klipsch speakers are being produced with the superior diaphragms, crossovers can be designed for higher degree of protection . This is one area where JBL has taken steps forward that Klipsch Heritage system seems to be lacking. Other areas include magnet design, woofer cone materials, and quality of construction. But I am not sure the prices of the DD Synthesis series is justified. Why doesn't Klipsch publish distortion curves like Altec, JBL, Altec, Mcintosh, Magico , AR and KLH did and do?
 
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Altec 604s, 18s, 19s, JBL C40s. Stephens E3s, IMF Reference 80s, Fulton Modular J and Hs, Frazier MKVIs, North American Sound, EV Sentry IIIs all exist, all cost similar to the Cornwalls, and all have the ability to hang with Cornwalls for performance and quality. A few best them.

The Cornwall was unique in that it was the mid speaker in a model line, while the competitors' speakers that bettered them were the top of their lines.
 
I have met very few people that would say they can't stand the Cornwall, it does very well for low wattage systems without a doubt, but also sounds good with bigger solid state equipment. About the only complaint I have heard about them was their size, they most certainly don't have much going for them as far as style and horns can be harsh. For tube systems they are my go to speaker, I love them for listening to vinyl also. I have the Epic CF series too, and they like much more power to sound their best. Some of the early Klipsch heritage series speakers can be very harsh when playing compressed MP3 tracks, which gets people to condemn horn speakers and the Klipsch brand in general. The Heresy is basically a baby Cornwall, take away the 15" woofer and add a 12", then shrink the cabinet and you end up with the biggest complaint with the Heresy, lack of deep bass.
 
When the Cornwall originated, only the Altec Carmel came close and a Capistrano with a 604 instead of a 511 with a 416 just didn;t have the quality of sound . Altec 19, 18 etc didn't exist yet. Yes the JBL C-40 was similar but the highs were inferior and the bass wasn't even close and the midrange to forward. The cabinet constriction and the quality of the speaker components was better with JBL, but the over all sound wasn't close with the speakers being so close to the floor didn't make it for me.. As much as I m a Frazier fan the MK iv may have had all the frequencies and level capability of a Cornwall, but it wasn't as smooth and its imaging was really inferior. And for IMF you can't compare a point source cone speaker with a Horn loaded ported speaker. Remember at the time of the original Corn wall un less you were rich 35 watts was about all the average person could afford. Remember I'm talking about the middle to early 60's. I admit Stephens were great I owned two systems, but they did come close to the Cornwall. And remember a Cornwall was almost 20 years old when A CF 3 came along. And why is a Cornwall still in production when CF-4 and 3 aren't? Loud isn't the answer.
 
Great question OP. While I don't have the Cornwall this same question has been in my mind off my Bell's.

Many great responses and for me Twii made a convincing argument. While I want to itch that curiosity of buying say Focal Nova Utopias or Magico S5 in addition to the upfront cost there is the supporting equipment to make them really sing. The Klipsch can make do with a tenth of the power the direct radiating speakers need
The Bell's sound great when I'm sitting dead center but at the same time great off axis too. The horns seem to radiate outward with ease. Then depending on the music the bass from the 15" woofers is enough for me.

I guess I keep coming back full circle.
I'd like to hear from those who have moved onto "bigger better" set ups and what the differences have been with the Klipsch & the modern speakers. Will they ever go back or stay with what they have. I'll find out partially this weekend at the California audio show.
 
I auditioned S5 and was really surprised at the quality of the tweeter, very listenable and thats rare for me to say now days. But the upper bass was all wrong. If you look at response curves they have some issues from 150 to 800 hz a Cornwall doesn't have. I tried 2301's, MC 601's and finally a little 275 got the sound pretty close with the the S5. The other issue was the bass below 50 HZ, thats supposed to be great. Well I couldn't find it unless we moved the speakers closer to the wall which put a bump in the mid bass. And it was still wrong. I would take a pair Cornwalls any day. They get the 70 to 800 Hz spectrum just about right, and the tweeters are acceptable. The horn can be worked around by sitting a little off axis with the older models. I haven't played with MK III.
 
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