Counterfeit cartridges - how common?

[3kitty]

Hey Everyone,

I have read occasionally about counterfeit or "grey" market carts.

How common is this?

As an example - my Denon DL110 comes with pink owners papers.....and many ads I have seen online that show contents....all pink.

Saw 1 ad with white.

Is that possible or should that be a red flag? Or are both common?

Thanks!

 

[sqlsavior]

I've wondered about this too, after purchasing a grey-market cartridge at half retail. I concluded that mine was not counterfeit, as I had no indications that it was.

I think anyone with the capabilities to make counterfeit cartridges would be [much] simply better off making their own originals. That's not to say it doesn't happen, though.

 

[JP]

Grey market goods aren't counterfeit, they're just goods sold through unintended distribution channels often outside their intended market.

 

[Balifly]

The old Denon DL-160 s came with green paper.

The Denon DL-301 MKII have both yellow and white papers.

I believe all the papers are genuine and not counterfeited.

 

[3kitty]

Grey market goods aren't counterfeit, they're just goods sold through unintended distribution channels often outside their intended market.

Sorry didn't mean to suggest that this was necessarily bad...although the term has been used in a negative context in some posts.

None-the-less just wondering if the paperwork could be a hint of anything wrong?

Thanks for your responses.

 

[vinyl1]

I have heard rumors that counterfeit Koetsus exist.

I don't think it would be worth it to make a fake $200 cartridge. On the other hand, there may be someone in China who is willing to go to the trouble of making a fake $5000 cartridge. They have some very clever people there who can copy anything.

 

[captouch]

They fake eggs and other food items in China - so it wouldn't surprise me at all for someone to fake carts. And, IMO, it would make more sense to fake a $100-200 (or chalet) cart than a $5000 cart since you'd move a lot more volume of lower priced items.

All that being said, no opinion on whether the particular DL-110 is fake or not. If you bought it through eBay, at least you'd have protection. I would think fakes would be reasonably easy to spot in person.

 

[SA-708]

Grey market goods aren't counterfeit, they're just goods sold through unintended distribution channels often outside their intended market.

Sorry didn't mean to suggest that this was necessarily bad...although the term has been used in a negative context in some posts.

I think he was trying to get across that you are confusing the terminology. Counterfeit cartridges would be illegal goods, and considered black market, not grey market.

 

[JP]

I think he was trying to get across that you are confusing the terminology. Counterfeit cartridges would be illegal goods, and considered black market, not grey market.

Yup.

 

[majick47]

If it's a gray market Denon DL-110 selling for half the normal retail price your going to be well under $100 if my math is right, not a lot of money at risk, I'd be willing to take the chance. As for counterfit or misrepresented items being sold, yes you have to be careful. I'v seen what appears to be Technics SL-1200Mk2 headshells but when you closely examine them and read the fine print they are Technics "style" headshells made in you know where by who knows and to unknown specs with no quality control selling for about the same price as the real thing. Everything under the sun is counterfeited in you know where and nothing is sacred including audio equipment/accessories, the wild west of mfg/merchandising.

 

[vinyl1]

But a Koetsu knock off? I can easily see that. Take any $200-$300 Denon MC and nude it, stuff it inside a jade box you made in high school shop class and cover the entry hole with a piece of brass on which you faithfully copied the Japanese characters and you'd be set to make a handsome profit. You could sell it as a used item and without packaging if you wanted and still get a good price. These days with highly detailed photos and diagrams of just about anything being readily available, researching how to make a convincing fake even if you've never held the real thing in your hand seems very possible.

But if I could do that, I think I'd just sell the jade boxes as nude kits like the Paradox Plus and be a legitimate business owner and be able to sleep at night proud of my accomplishments instead of always looking over my shoulder or waiting for the law to call.

The guys selling these fakes could always claim they were just dealers and had no idea the 'Koetsu' wasn't real. "Somebody ripped me off!", they'd say. "Terribly, sorry, of course I'll refund your money in full, just send the cartridge back, no problem". Then they'd wait a few months and sell it to someone else.

 

[Grbluen]

Maybe they're B-stock.

 

[GerardG]

Costco is one retailer that does this. That is why some electronics, watches, etc available there state there is no manufacturer warranty but one from Costco. Manufacturers don't like it but it is not illegal nor is it counterfeit.

Gerard

 

[Doug G.]

If you look closely at a counterfeit cartridge, the stylus is actually a little sewing needle poked through a tiny paper cone in there.



Doug

 

[Nat]

Kind of reminds me of a true crime story I read when I was a kid about a guy who was legitimately involved in designing and production at one of the U.S. mints, who, for some reason, started counterfeiting pennies. He was caught, and his defense was that his pennies were absolutely as good as the governments (which was more or less the truth), but the baffling thing was why he did it, since he couldn't have profited much from it. (And in retrospect, another baffling thing was why the government put the time and expense into this prosecution rather than going after criminals fleecing people of their life savings or cheating them of their salaries or whatever.)

 

[truckrglenn]

He did it because he could. The challenge.

 

[grumpy]

Bottom line is if something seems to good to be true it generally is.

 

[for_p1]

I think you can more often buy QC rejects than completely counterfeit products. In that case cartridge will look exactly like original, just have some defect -big or small.

 

[Mister Pig]

Kind of reminds me of a true crime story I read when I was a kid about a guy who was legitimately involved in designing and production at one of the U.S. mints, who, for some reason, started counterfeiting pennies. He was caught, and his defense was that his pennies were absolutely as good as the governments (which was more or less the truth), but the baffling thing was why he did it, since he couldn't have profited much from it. (And in retrospect, another baffling thing was why the government put the time and expense into this prosecution rather than going after criminals fleecing people of their life savings or cheating them of their salaries or whatever.)

Because the wishing well people were complaining that profits were down. The banks rejected their counterfeit pennies.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[reydelaplaya]

Hey Everyone,

I have read occasionally about counterfeit or "grey" market carts.

How common is this?

As an example - my Denon DL110 comes with pink owners papers.....and many ads I have seen online that show contents....all pink.

Saw 1 ad with white.

Is that possible or should that be a red flag? Or are both common?

Thanks!

To help put your mind at ease, my DL-110 came with pink paper as well.

I bought it from a seller in HK on the auction site who, judging by his many items for sale, deals in very nice equipment. And judging by his plentiful, almost perfect feedback, he's totally legit.

I'm 100% sure what I received was brand new old stock, and not counterfeit. Hopefully that helps you feel a little more at ease with your own.