1. Time for some upgrades in server hardware and software to enhance security and take AK to the next level. Please contribute what you can to sales@audiokarma.org at PayPal.com - Thanks from the AK Team
    Dismiss Notice

CR1020 Restoration Guidance

Discussion in 'Yamaha' started by LFazio51, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Oilmaster

    Oilmaster Drillers go deeper Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,243
    Location:
    Paris & The Hague
    euh...wasn't that BBQ grill cleaner the cause for some trouble?
    Regular kitchen degrease cleaner would do for a regular wash ;)

    Yes, do take off the knobs and faceplate
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. rottalpha

    rottalpha Yamaholic Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Middle of Crook County
    yes it was...it removed the markings off of some of the components....that is why I would remove everything from that chassis before the bath.
     
  3. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    Ok, this approach to cleaning is new to me and seems like there is potential for damage if not performed correctly. So, after reviewing both @rottalpha and @Oilmaster recommended procedures, I think I'll be more comfortable with the Oilmaster approach; just not comfortable enough with removing everything unless @rottalpha is simply referring to removing everything (such as back-plane terminals, corresponding boards, etc) and keeping all solder joints connected, which would result in something along the lines of an "umbilical" cord with all boards removed but still connected to one another. I'm not sure this is what you're talking about so maybe some clarity in this area would help my understanding.

    Again, my inclination is to clean as follows:

    1. Remove face-plate - I will need some advice on the best way to remove the small circuit attached to it on the left side that contains the red LED's for "power" "Stereo" and "OTS." I'm not sure if I should "de-solder" from behind the face-plate OR, trace the wires back and de-solder - de-soldering from the face-plate area seems the most appropriate to me.

    2. Dial-String - Not really wanting to remove this so my plan is to leave it strung - please advise.

    3. Tone/EQ/Tuner/ & Main PSU C. Board - All when remain in the unit for cleaning.

    4. Pots/Switches - All will remain in the unit when put into the shower.

    5. Cleaner Application - I will spray cleaner over everything listed above prior to giving it a "shower" - please advise.
     
  4. Oilmaster

    Oilmaster Drillers go deeper Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,243
    Location:
    Paris & The Hague
    Indeed we might have rushed you a bit since we have done it (many times) before, while you didn't.
    Don't do anything you feel uncomfortable with !

    You do point out a couple of things which will hunt you in the rebuild process anyway:

    1) The LED PCB is 'slided' into that black rubber (ish) holder which is glued to the back side of the faceplate. You should be able to insert a small flat object between the PCB and rubber, gently flipping the PCB out of the rubber, leaving the rubber glued on the faceplate.

    2) Dial string. We can be brief about it: a real PITA regarding any works, incl. cleaning, in this unit. There is not enough direct access to the solder side of the tuner board in case you want to recap the phono section and 100% of the tuning section, without unscrewing the PCB from the chassis.... unleashing the dial cord from the air capacitor's black reel. So, you have to make a choice here: do you want to recap the tuner + phono section: yes or no? If yes, then take tons of photos of all dial cord positions and spindles, which will show you later how the cord was exactly routed and winded around any place/spindle. I've done it: it's doable if you prepair yourself correctly. Also remember the extreme position of the air capacitor versus extreme dial position (with covering photos). Have a look at the service manual's dial cord page as well before you start.

    EDIT: and yes you can soak and rinse it while leaving the entire tuner PCB in position

    3) & 4) Another PITA is the battery of "open air" switches/selectors on the tone control board. Besides that they really oxidize inside, actually imposing full opening and cleaning, all cleaning fluids will get in (and less out). Pots and switches can handle detergent and water, no problem, as long as you intend to clean them separately inside afterwards.

    5) yes, you can apply a spray bottle detergent first, let it soak for a while, then rinse.

    The CR units are a real undertaking to work on due to all their complications; it did take me over 6 months...closer to 9 I think....

    So, don't do it if you are uncomfortable with it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    LFazio51 likes this.
  5. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    Exactly what I needed - Thank You sir! Now that I have the much needed added clarity, I can properly evaluate my options and make a good choice!

    Man, if I get this thing working properly again, I'm gonna be stoked and surely up for some type of award!! Maybe 1st place in the "Personal Gratification" category! lol!
     
    Mr. Yamaha likes this.
  6. Oilmaster

    Oilmaster Drillers go deeper Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,243
    Location:
    Paris & The Hague
    oh well, you will have done pre-school/primary/secondary/college at the same time
     
    LFazio51 likes this.

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    Ok, I was attempting to disassemble the audio mute push-button and removed the housing from the chassis. It appeared to me that removing the front white portion of the switch itself may afford access for cleaning - WRONG. While attempting to apply pressure to determine if by pulling "up" on it, it would release, it broke (see photo below). Fortunately its ability to function properly was not affected, but, my initiative for dismantling these switches was. I'm not seeing how dismantling these is possible without an incredible risk of damage - it hardly seems worth it, maybe someone can offer a different perspective.

    As a result, of the conditions above, I'm left to wonder, what will happen when water enters these while cleaning? If I don't disassemble, what ensures complete removal of the water? Will cleaning and lubing, after a sufficient time for drying, be enough to mitigate this situation? Unfortunately I'm well stocked on questions but low on answers.

    Audio Mute Switch.JPG
     
  8. Jygesq

    Jygesq Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    628
    how would water enter? unless a large amount it should dry out on its own, as long as you do not run the unit.
     
  9. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    Post#176 begins the consideration for cleaning the chassis - in a manner that will afford water entry into the switches.
     
  10. Mr. Yamaha

    Mr. Yamaha Not so much Yamaha lately...

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Amsterdam Area, The Netherlands
    I think it's most wise to remove all switches from the boards. Then you can rinse the boards as prescribed above. Then you can clean the switches (full dismantle) and solder them back on the boards. After soldering them back on you can remove the small amounts of new solder flux with flux remover on a q tip.

    I wouldn't alow water in my switches :no:
     
  11. MannyE

    MannyE Exterminate! Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,185
    Location:
    Miami Beach
    I'm learning so much with this thread. Mostly that I'm never going to do this myself and I'm very glad someone out there is willing to take money to make it happen. :)
     
    LFazio51 likes this.

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    So, once the switches are removed, will I have access to their interior? I'm asking as there doesn't appear to be a good way to dismantle these switches. If I try to "pry" them apart, I fear they will break as I've shown in the photo above - can someone elaborate on the dismantling of these switches?
     
  13. Mr. Yamaha

    Mr. Yamaha Not so much Yamaha lately...

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Amsterdam Area, The Netherlands
    The specific Alps switch above is pretty hard to dismantle. I experienced that the red/brown part can’t be separated from the case. What you can do is: take out the 2 bolts so it comes off the chassis. Then bent all 4 metal pins around the white plastic (you’ve only bent two) to the outside. Then take the white plastic top off. Be aware: the spring can shoot out the blue part. Take out the blue part along with copper sliders (don’t lose or bend them!) Then you can inspect the inside for corrosion.

    But I didn’t manage to seperate the plastic case from the red/brown bottom, so for me it was a waste of time at that point. It looked it had no corrosion inside, so I only relubed the copper sliders with fader lube.

    The slider switches with the metal cases can be taken apart. Bend away all metal pins and take out the brown/red part.

    96D05E3A-402F-42C2-B656-645439FD7D53.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    Oilmaster likes this.
  14. Oilmaster

    Oilmaster Drillers go deeper Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,243
    Location:
    Paris & The Hague
    I was about to reply the same, and couldn't have said it better.

    When I mentioned 'open air' switches, I meant the full metal ones as shown in Mr. Yamaha's photo above (which are on the large tone control board)
    Also look at Mr. Yamaha's CA-2000/2010 thread for many more photos, and you'll see quickly why I said that.
    The enclosed plastic ones, as the one you attempted to open, oxidize at a slower pace, and you could opt to leave them unattended for the moment.

    One tip: since you have to desolder the large full metal open air switches off the PCB to be able to open them, you ought to mark them where they were exactly located. Each switch has a different number op positions, hence swapping them will be annoying as you have to swap them back after assembling.
    Yes.... happened to me during my CR-2020 rebuilt, despite that I marked them... arghh....

    Another consideration: desoldering the many pins of the open air switches might be really difficult if you have no vacuum desolder gun.
    Solder wick might proof difficult as well.
     
    Mr. Yamaha likes this.
  15. Mr. Yamaha

    Mr. Yamaha Not so much Yamaha lately...

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Amsterdam Area, The Netherlands
    Yeah, I wouldn’t even try without a vacuum desoldering gun.
     
  16. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    It's becoming clear to me that I'm going to need to invest in one of these de-solder vacuum tools. I guess the Haako FR300 is what everyone is recommending. If you have other recommendations that will last and sufficiently accomplish the task, please share.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. Mr. Yamaha

    Mr. Yamaha Not so much Yamaha lately...

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Amsterdam Area, The Netherlands
    I'm in the second big project with this cheap Chinese solder sucker ($125). I bought it a year ago and was planning on buing a Hakko FR300 later, but it's still here. Does exactly what it should do. The Hakko is better in quality I guess, but it costs 3x as much. And this Chinese thing comes with 3 sizes of nozzles, while Hakko gives you one and the rest are optional ($$). You need at least two nozzles, one for regular components and one for larger pins of switches (so you can switches to clean them :biggrin:).

    IMG_1199.jpg
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  18. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    Thanks for the feedback on the desoldering station. I'll have to investigate and make my decision! I've looked on eBay and these now have a "dual display" and are roughly $160, so, half the price of the Hakko. At 50% of the Hakko price, I'm leaning towards the hakko as I believe Amazon has the base unit for $246. Of course, as you indicated, I'd have to buy additional nozzles and a holder.
     
  19. hertzdonut

    hertzdonut Press Play and Stand Back Subscriber

    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Claremont, NH
    Hakko has an 808 model for a couple of hundred bucks. Unless it’s discontinued, it was about 4 years ago. I’ve used it on my various projects, really happy with it.

    - Jeff
     
    LFazio51 likes this.
  20. Mr. Yamaha

    Mr. Yamaha Not so much Yamaha lately...

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Amsterdam Area, The Netherlands
    Yeah that one is discontinued. The FR300 is the new model.
     
    LFazio51 likes this.

Share This Page