Crites makes the K600 horn

fernarias

Super Member
This is so interesting to me especially since Klipsch themselves said they lost the mold (lie). I'm definitely going to buy a pair. Some people might want to upgrade their Cornwall III or rebuild those empty cabinets that I've been seeing lately.

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if one was inclined to upgrade a Cornwall mid horn (be that a CW, CW 2 or a CW 3) I should think that the first and obvious natural choice would be to choose the horn that Klipsch designed specifically for that purpose, that being the Tractrix mid horn used in the Chorus ll. Remembering that the Chorus and Chorus 2 are the upgraded successors to the Cornwall. A number of members over at the Klipsch forum have done this very mod and they seem most pleased with the results.
 
if one was inclined to upgrade a Cornwall mid horn (be that a CW, CW 2 or a CW 3) I should think that the first and obvious natural choice would be to choose the horn that Klipsch designed specifically for that purpose, that being the Tractrix mid horn used in the Chorus ll. Remembering that the Chorus and Chorus 2 are the upgraded successors to the Cornwall. A number of members over at the Klipsch forum have done this very mod and they seem most pleased with the results.
How did they fit that horn in between the tweeter and the woofer? Did they also remove the tweeter and add a full range horn making them two way speakers? I definitely want to see a picture.
FYI, I said that as a joke (replacing the CIII horn).
 
How did they fit that horn in between the tweeter and the woofer? Did they also remove the tweeter and add a full range horn making them two way speakers? I definitely want to see a picture.
FYI, I said that as a joke (replacing the CIII horn).

Here's the link...

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/169052-k-61-k-in-a-cornwall/

And here's a picture. Not mine....borrowed from the web. These are in Cornwall II's and not the original design with K-55 mid/K-600 & K-77 tweeters. For that matter, they are such simple cabinets to build one could just source all the drivers and build a set versus forever changing the face look, and value, of Cornwall's in their stock form. But I would probably do the same if I had a pair. That tiny Heresy III horn in a CW3 just seems wrong. :D

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How did they fit that horn in between the tweeter and the woofer? Did they also remove the tweeter and add a full range horn making them two way speakers? I definitely want to see a picture.
FYI, I said that as a joke (replacing the CIII horn).
You could always build a new front board for it
 
Here's the link...

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/169052-k-61-k-in-a-cornwall/

And here's a picture. Not mine....borrowed from the web. These are in Cornwall II's and not the original design with K-55 mid/K-600 & K-77 tweeters. For that matter, they are such simple cabinets to build one could just source all the drivers and build a set versus forever changing the face look, and value, of Cornwall's in their stock form. But I would probably do the same if I had a pair. That tiny Heresy III horn in a CW3 just seems wrong. :D
Well that's a II. I want to see a III that has the horn replaced. Again, I don't think there's that much room in the III with the woofer centered on the front. I agree, sell the cornwall you got for $$$ and build the cornwall you want for $$. All the parts are available, woofer, tweeter, mid horn(of your choice) and then the quartets, forte II, chorus II horn, or some other horn. Doesn't Crites sell cnc plywood panels to build any speaker?
 
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How did they fit that horn in between the tweeter and the woofer? Did they also remove the tweeter and add a full range horn making them two way speakers? I definitely want to see a picture.
FYI, I said that as a joke (replacing the CIII horn).

fresh motorboard. two way versions have been built but not with the Chorus 2 mid horn as it does not have sufficient bandwidth as it is only a mid horn. If you wanted to go two way with a Klipsch made horn use a horn from a CF3 or CF4 that is a wide band horn used a s a tweeter in some pro models.
In a three way I would place the mid horn on the top of the driver stack with the tweeter below. This will achieve two things for you. It places the mid closer to your seated ear level which is exactly what you want and it automatically provides some time delay between the tweeter and the mid which is also a good thing.No negatives only positives.
 
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fresh motorboard. two way versions have been built but not with the Chorus 2 as it does not have sufficient band width it is only a mid horn. If you wanted to go two way with a Klipsch made horn use a horn from a CF3 or CF4 that is a wide band horn used a s a tweeter in some pro models.
In a three way I would place the mid horn on the top of the driver stack with the tweeter below. This will achieve two things for you. It places the mid closer to your seated ear level which is exactly what you want and it automatically provides some time delay between the tweeter and the mid which is also a good thing.No negatives only positives.
Oh, ok. They are using a different horn for the CIII. Still with the III going for 2200 each, I don't think I would modify them and knowing they nerfed the midrange I wouldn't buy them (well, If I got a good deal on used, maybe). Maybe, someday, they will offer the III as it should've been built.
As for sitting position, my comfortable chair puts my ears at 30 inches, which means even the fortes horns are at ear level. I have some of those Ikea Poang chairs and I'm 6 feet tall. I wish they made a lounge chair in the same style but then I would probably fall asleep.
 
This is so interesting to me especially since Klipsch themselves said they lost the mold (lie).

I have no problem with Klipsch stating that they lost the mold for that horn. They probably had it out sourced and the company that was making it for them went out of business. Happens all the time and if they didn't contact Klipsch to pick up the mold than it went into the dumpster. Usually the end user of the molded product (Klipsch in this case) pays for the mold, an expensive one time cost and there after only pays for the molded product.
Any decent mold shop can reverse engineer an existing product and make a new mold. Not cheap to do but it is done. Actually pretty cheap if done in China.
So saying that Klipsch lied without knowing the facts is a rather bold statement. Add to the fact that Crites has it's name molded into the new horn just backs up my explanation.

BillWojo
 
Bill is providing a cast metal horn. Klipsch moved away from metal long ago so I presumed any mention of the "lost mold" had to do with the plastic injection molds which, as mentioned, may not be economical to recreate for small production numbers when you have a suitable substitute with the 701 horn.
 
I have no problem with Klipsch stating that they lost the mold for that horn. They probably had it out sourced and the company that was making it for them went out of business. Happens all the time and if they didn't contact Klipsch to pick up the mold than it went into the dumpster. Usually the end user of the molded product (Klipsch in this case) pays for the mold, an expensive one time cost and there after only pays for the molded product.
Any decent mold shop can reverse engineer an existing product and make a new mold. Not cheap to do but it is done. Actually pretty cheap if done in China.
So saying that Klipsch lied without knowing the facts is a rather bold statement. Add to the fact that Crites has it's name molded into the new horn just backs up my explanation.

BillWojo
They obviously lied since "we lost the mold" is a bs excuse. Did they loose the plans too, they lost all the samples too, there's no one who can engineer an improved K600, K601 (gee, didn't they just make a new horn for the Forte III)? They lied, no one believes them. You can make a new mold for $5000 to $12,000 and it will press out 500,000 parts or more (and then you make a new mold). Molds today are CNC milled and are made to use standard plastic injection machines. Typically, injection molded parts are outsourced to companies that make injected molded parts for 100s of customers and cost depends more on the size of the order (how many) than anything else. Today we even have rapid prototyping where many different models can be built and tested but with computer design software, you don't even need to do that since you can run countless simulations to design your part. Also, in 2018 we are seeing the rise of the small manufacturer who for very little money can design and produce products to be sold (like Marantz faceplates, Sanusi and Kenwood knobs, plastic housings for receivers lights, replacement boards, improved power supply boards, replacement diaphragms, etc. etc.just in this hobby) .

So again, when this "new" Klipsch company said that they "lost the mold" they lied. They lied to their customers and that's bad. You lose faith in a company who lies. It would have been better for Klipsch if they had just come out and said, "we don't make that many cornwalls but we make tons of heresy so to save $50 per cornwall, we decided to use the same K700 that we use in the heresy, sound difference between the K700 and K600 is minimal in our tests".
 
Your not getting a plastic injection mold for a horn built for 5 to 12 thousand dollars. Not in this country anyway.
Since your so sure that the Klipsch company personal are a bunch of liars, If I were you I'd just boycott the company and not own any of there products. I already explained to you what probably happened to the mold.

BillWojo
 
If you're building one... then look at the KI-396 from their cinema line. It's essentially a 2-way Cornwall on steroids.

https://www.klipsch.com/products/ki-396

I've heard this and when I heard it (outdoors if that matters) I actually thought it was their MCM Grande system playing. It was astounding how good it sounded and how "big" it sounded (not necessarily loud mind you)

So if you are into building or just improving a Cornwall..... and you want to make a quantum jump in sound quality... look what they did here and copy it. That means get yourself a K510/K691 combo and go 2-way.

Frankly, they can have their mold for the K600/700/800/whatever-hundred!

Once you get away from those puny horns and jump up to a 2" throat it's hard to go back.
 
Your not getting a plastic injection mold for a horn built for 5 to 12 thousand dollars. Not in this country anyway.
Since your so sure that the Klipsch company personal are a bunch of liars, If I were you I'd just boycott the company and not own any of there products. I already explained to you what probably happened to the mold.

BillWojo
Yes, I don't purchase any new Klipsch products from Vox International. I do like the products that Klipsch produced when "bullshit" still existed. Not just lying but I've gotten bad customer service from them and I don't call or email them any more either because I already know that they will not try to help(I have money, I wasn't looking for a handout, they refused to take my money and gave me grief). I've also heard the voices of current and former employees at this company and what I've heard isn't good Note: "we lost the mold" implies that they can't make the K600 or K601 horn anymore, that's the lie. They also say that they can't make Belles because they can't make the K500, another lie.

It does costs 5000 to 12000 to make a new injection mold for a mold the size of the K601 of course then you need to add the fixed cost of the mold to the variable cost of the materials, cost of labor and machine usage plus a reasonable profit for the company for each horn produced. If you made two, cost would be very high. If you made 10000 your costs per item would be much lower. It's 2018, to make a mold you need two pieces of steel(steel prices have tanked),a cad/cam file (people are using free tools and making files for fun) and a three positon cnc (one hour or two times two, cheap, I almost bought some cnc machines during the great depression from San Jose, the only thing that stopped me was weight and how to put them in my shop not cost). The injection molding company may not make it's own mold, those may be made by a company that just provides cnc services. Same with cad/cam, you can do it in house, you can have it down by a design firm and if you have the part you can have it scanned and made into a cad/cam file. Prices are down due to international competition in injection molding and in all the alternatives to injection molding. You should really look into injection molding and it's alternatives. The reason I know is because I got estimates when I was trying to make my "dancing Jesus"(million dollar idea).
 
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Just out of curiosity, why this big rant about "Klipsch lies"? Do they owe you a K601 horn or something?
 
Well, I'll have to let my few customers left that make injection molds know that they are taking much to long to make molds. A few hours? Your so full of BS it's obvious that you know nothing about the mold business. Just a mold base from DME would run you 4K or better for the size that you would need to make a small horn. Add in the many hours of machining to carve out the shapes needed, making the internal core, the cams, etc and your into big bucks.
I have spent my entire life in the manufacturing field and have been into literally hundreds of mold shops covering the states of VA, MD, DE, NJ, PA and NY. Sure, technology has speeded up the process but it still is exacting, slow work. Some plastic parts need several revisions in the mold shape to get perfect parts due to shrinkage and distortion when the part is released from the mold. That's why a mold designer gets better that 100K a year for his design work. Things like shut-offs, cooling passages and general design greatly effect the out come of the finished product. That kind of information doesn't reside in some fancy cad/cam much less some freeby software, it comes from experience that only a seasoned mold designer has.
Good 3 axis machining software not only plots all the X,Y,Z cordinates but also controls the accel and decel velocity of the cutter during the tool path to keep the cutter from gouging. That kind of software is very expensive.
All of the mold guys that I know, had been in the business working in shops helping to build molds for at least 15 years before they were let loose to build a mold from start to finish. Only the cream of the crop ever get there.
There are machinist, there are tool and die guys and than there are mold makers, they are the prim a-donnas of the machine shop field.
Me, I'm a trained tool and die man that went into the machine tool service world. I wouldn't even attempt to build a simple mold without a lot of help from some of my friends. I just don't have the specialized knowledge. I know enough to know that I don't know enough.

BillWojo
 
Wow, whatever. Crites did something that Klipsch, a sizable company back by a conglomerate, said they couldn't. This is my point. Who's Crites, a small business man. If a small business man want's to make a plastic copy of the K601, then they will. BillWojo, tell you what, you're right.
 
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