Custom built ESS AMT Heil based speaker thread
- Thread starter decooney
- Start date
SleeperSupra
Super Member
What a great thread!
Any updates? I would really like to learn more about teaming up a Great HEIL with the Altec 416...
Any updates? I would really like to learn more about teaming up a Great HEIL with the Altec 416...
Here is what I did with my ESS AMTs, then how I uses the AMTs on my next build.
My ESS E-waves are complete. Here is the story as it unfolded. I only bought the ESS AMT 1Cs for the Heil tweets and planned on baying the rest of the bits….but then I started reading the Econowave thread and I was a goner.
Here are the ESS’ as I first saw them (paid $200.00 for the pair) notice the missing PRs and crappy grills.
I put the wave guides on top, after taking off the Heils just so see if they had promise….they did, in scads...and that was with the original ESS crossovers!!!. After ginning up the crossovers (thanks for the parts Bauhausler) and sticking them on top as well as the horns just to see how they sounded I was floored, and, that was without the replacement PRs. Urizen PMed me offering a pair of unused PR kits for a very reasonable price (thanks Urizen), so I tore the cabs apart and repainted the black parts and sanded and restrained the wood veneer, (thanks for the stain Kegger)
I also recovered the grills with a sheer black “speaker cloth” from Jo Anne Fabric (that is what they call it and that is what it is…..$20.00 for enough to do 3.5 grills). I cut holes in the back of the cabs for the double speaker post plates and mounted them. I redid the PRs and put them in, and mounted the horns and crossovers.
I started out with the lower eff version of the crossovers and because I ended up bi-amping, I did not need the reduce horn signal so I just swapped out the parts ( R1, R2, and C3) and I am now getting much more SPLs out of my horns. I then (upon Kegger's suggestion) took C2 to 6.3 vs, the 12uF it calls for on the schematic. That brought up the upper vocals in the woof and just filled in the area a bit. At first I was running the woofs with an Adcom GCF510 and the horns with my 300B. Kegger also brought over some of the foam he is using in the throat of his horns and scupled plugs for mine. Those make all the difference in the world. You can crank up the volume and the highs sound just as good but with no extra sharpness. The bass was unbelievable…way down to the lowest bass note without rolloff, the mids were as clear and dynamic as you would expect from horns with ABSOLUTLY no horn sound. The high are sweet, sweet, sweet. After a while I started feeling fatigued from the bass so I took out the Adcom and I am now running the 300B on the woofs and the Decware Zen on the horns. The bass is just wonderful so detailed and creamy to the ears and if you want to crank it, it will punch the breath right out of you. The horns with the Zen amp sound very rich, detailed, and present. Here are the finished products. Actually I still have to redo the other grill but I am waiting for a larger time window so I can make a picture tutorial to post of the web. It took me three hours to figure out how to redo them, but once I figured it out, it went smooth. The top of the grills had a piece of thick cardboard in the recessed top but I am going to replace that with glass so I can show off my crossovers.
So thanks to Keg, Urizen, Bauhausler, and all of you who took the time to perfect this project. Cheers.
------------------------------------------------------
My ESS E-waves are complete. Here is the story as it unfolded. I only bought the ESS AMT 1Cs for the Heil tweets and planned on baying the rest of the bits….but then I started reading the Econowave thread and I was a goner.
Here are the ESS’ as I first saw them (paid $200.00 for the pair) notice the missing PRs and crappy grills.
I put the wave guides on top, after taking off the Heils just so see if they had promise….they did, in scads...and that was with the original ESS crossovers!!!. After ginning up the crossovers (thanks for the parts Bauhausler) and sticking them on top as well as the horns just to see how they sounded I was floored, and, that was without the replacement PRs. Urizen PMed me offering a pair of unused PR kits for a very reasonable price (thanks Urizen), so I tore the cabs apart and repainted the black parts and sanded and restrained the wood veneer, (thanks for the stain Kegger)
I also recovered the grills with a sheer black “speaker cloth” from Jo Anne Fabric (that is what they call it and that is what it is…..$20.00 for enough to do 3.5 grills). I cut holes in the back of the cabs for the double speaker post plates and mounted them. I redid the PRs and put them in, and mounted the horns and crossovers.
I started out with the lower eff version of the crossovers and because I ended up bi-amping, I did not need the reduce horn signal so I just swapped out the parts ( R1, R2, and C3) and I am now getting much more SPLs out of my horns. I then (upon Kegger's suggestion) took C2 to 6.3 vs, the 12uF it calls for on the schematic. That brought up the upper vocals in the woof and just filled in the area a bit. At first I was running the woofs with an Adcom GCF510 and the horns with my 300B. Kegger also brought over some of the foam he is using in the throat of his horns and scupled plugs for mine. Those make all the difference in the world. You can crank up the volume and the highs sound just as good but with no extra sharpness. The bass was unbelievable…way down to the lowest bass note without rolloff, the mids were as clear and dynamic as you would expect from horns with ABSOLUTLY no horn sound. The high are sweet, sweet, sweet. After a while I started feeling fatigued from the bass so I took out the Adcom and I am now running the 300B on the woofs and the Decware Zen on the horns. The bass is just wonderful so detailed and creamy to the ears and if you want to crank it, it will punch the breath right out of you. The horns with the Zen amp sound very rich, detailed, and present. Here are the finished products. Actually I still have to redo the other grill but I am waiting for a larger time window so I can make a picture tutorial to post of the web. It took me three hours to figure out how to redo them, but once I figured it out, it went smooth. The top of the grills had a piece of thick cardboard in the recessed top but I am going to replace that with glass so I can show off my crossovers.
So thanks to Keg, Urizen, Bauhausler, and all of you who took the time to perfect this project. Cheers.
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Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
Hawthornes
Senoire El Cerdo,
If you care to kick tires and drive west of the mountains.....
Would love to hear these speakers, I have a small pair of Hawthorne Trios with Woodsage baffles. These are his biggies....with Heil loaded in a short flared horn assembly. Beautiful speakers in terms of wood working....
Regards
Mister Pig
Senoire El Cerdo,
If you care to kick tires and drive west of the mountains.....
SleeperSupra
Super Member
Here is what I did with my ESS AMTs, then how I uses the AMTs on my next build.
My ESS E-waves are complete. Here is the story as it unfolded. I only bought the ESS AMT 1Cs for the Heil tweets and planned on baying the rest of the bits….but then I started reading the Econowave thread and I was a goner.
Here are the ESS’ as I first saw them (paid $200.00 for the pair) notice the missing PRs and crappy grills.
I put the wave guides on top, after taking off the Heils just so see if they had promise….they did, in scads...and that was with the original ESS crossovers!!!. After ginning up the crossovers (thanks for the parts Bauhausler) and sticking them on top as well as the horns just to see how they sounded I was floored, and, that was without the replacement PRs. Urizen PMed me offering a pair of unused PR kits for a very reasonable price (thanks Urizen), so I tore the cabs apart and repainted the black parts and sanded and restrained the wood veneer, (thanks for the stain Kegger)
I also recovered the grills with a sheer black “speaker cloth” from Jo Anne Fabric (that is what they call it and that is what it is…..$20.00 for enough to do 3.5 grills). I cut holes in the back of the cabs for the double speaker post plates and mounted them. I redid the PRs and put them in, and mounted the horns and crossovers.
I started out with the lower eff version of the crossovers and because I ended up bi-amping, I did not need the reduce horn signal so I just swapped out the parts ( R1, R2, and C3) and I am now getting much more SPLs out of my horns. I then (upon Kegger's suggestion) took C2 to 6.3 vs, the 12uF it calls for on the schematic. That brought up the upper vocals in the woof and just filled in the area a bit. At first I was running the woofs with an Adcom GCF510 and the horns with my 300B. Kegger also brought over some of the foam he is using in the throat of his horns and scupled plugs for mine. Those make all the difference in the world. You can crank up the volume and the highs sound just as good but with no extra sharpness. The bass was unbelievable…way down to the lowest bass note without rolloff, the mids were as clear and dynamic as you would expect from horns with ABSOLUTLY no horn sound. The high are sweet, sweet, sweet. After a while I started feeling fatigued from the bass so I took out the Adcom and I am now running the 300B on the woofs and the Decware Zen on the horns. The bass is just wonderful so detailed and creamy to the ears and if you want to crank it, it will punch the breath right out of you. The horns with the Zen amp sound very rich, detailed, and present. Here are the finished products. Actually I still have to redo the other grill but I am waiting for a larger time window so I can make a picture tutorial to post of the web. It took me three hours to figure out how to redo them, but once I figured it out, it went smooth. The top of the grills had a piece of thick cardboard in the recessed top but I am going to replace that with glass so I can show off my crossovers.
So thanks to Keg, Urizen, Bauhausler, and all of you who took the time to perfect this project. Cheers.
------------------------------------------------------
Do you like the horn mod better than the HEIL's?
SleeperSupra
Super Member
I read your post again and I'm clear now. Could you please tell us about the speakers you teamed the HEIL up with? They look really nice. I am itching to do a three way build and would like to team the HEIL up with my Altec 416-8b and a mid of some sort.
SleeperSupra
Super Member
Anyone have any idea of how this sounds?
If you are handy you might want to look into a front loaded horn for the 416 and a mid horn and CD for midrange. There are soooo many possibilities depending on your budget.
SleeperSupra
Super Member
Thanks.
Will do.
Will do.
Finally Finished.
Finally got around to finishing up my last custom design set, self named as DEC-AMT28s. Been wanting to design, build, and complete these for a long time. Sounds incredible, HUGE sound stage when paired with a good tube amp. These are keepers. Cabinets are 1" thick HDF inside, Walnut skins, + solid Walnut 1-1/4" thick facia added to the baffle. The subs below are separate and can be turned on/off for fun. AMTs are at ear level.
Finally got around to finishing up my last custom design set, self named as DEC-AMT28s. Been wanting to design, build, and complete these for a long time. Sounds incredible, HUGE sound stage when paired with a good tube amp. These are keepers. Cabinets are 1" thick HDF inside, Walnut skins, + solid Walnut 1-1/4" thick facia added to the baffle. The subs below are separate and can be turned on/off for fun. AMTs are at ear level.
Very nice and very unusual design. What are the other drivers you're using there?
SleeperSupra
Super Member
DC Gold
I am thinking about pulling the trigger on the DC Gold mod. I may get the reference series 6x9's for my AMT 1 b speakers and try their tens on my AMT4's...:thmbsp:
I am thinking about pulling the trigger on the DC Gold mod. I may get the reference series 6x9's for my AMT 1 b speakers and try their tens on my AMT4's...:thmbsp:
SleeperSupra
Super Member
Any updates?
jcidave
Well-Known Member
Another AK friend of mine pointed me to this thread. My small projects with Heils pale in comparison to these efforts posted several years ago, but to keep the thread going, I have converted several small bookshelf speakers by cramming in a great Heil with a smaller woofer.
The first pic is a conversion done over 20 years ago. Uses a house brand speaker sold by the now defunct retailer named SILO. Started life as an 8 inch 2 way. These are 5/8 thick vinyl wrap particle board cabinets.
Couldn't save the 8 inch woofer cause of its positioning on the baffle board, so used 6.5 inch woofs from Parts Express. I did 2 pair of these. One pair has ESS AMT 1A bookshelf crossovers and the other pair has ESS AMT 1B crossovers. These cabinets are completely sealed. At least one of the 2 pair has the yellow Kapton diaphragms from that period of time when ESS was providing these as replacements.
The last conversion done earlier this year uses a pair of Radio Shack Nova 15 cabinets. Here I was able to keep the OEM 8 inch woofer which made the fitting of the Heil more difficult. These cabinets are also 5/8 particle board but real walnut veneer. I had acquired a pair of Heils from Ricky when he put them on sale last year and a pair of ESS Monitor crossovers for another project which didn't materialize. So I had the parts waiting for something to do.
After these were completed, I acquired a pair of ESS LS8 woofers with alnico magnets, refoamed these and replaced the RS woofers.
All of these were just fun, erector set projects with NO engineering whatsoever. So there is no preconceived notion of great performance. These are merely supplemental speakers which are stacked with the main ESS speakers in the system. They all play together all the time.
The first pic is a conversion done over 20 years ago. Uses a house brand speaker sold by the now defunct retailer named SILO. Started life as an 8 inch 2 way. These are 5/8 thick vinyl wrap particle board cabinets.
Couldn't save the 8 inch woofer cause of its positioning on the baffle board, so used 6.5 inch woofs from Parts Express. I did 2 pair of these. One pair has ESS AMT 1A bookshelf crossovers and the other pair has ESS AMT 1B crossovers. These cabinets are completely sealed. At least one of the 2 pair has the yellow Kapton diaphragms from that period of time when ESS was providing these as replacements.
The last conversion done earlier this year uses a pair of Radio Shack Nova 15 cabinets. Here I was able to keep the OEM 8 inch woofer which made the fitting of the Heil more difficult. These cabinets are also 5/8 particle board but real walnut veneer. I had acquired a pair of Heils from Ricky when he put them on sale last year and a pair of ESS Monitor crossovers for another project which didn't materialize. So I had the parts waiting for something to do.
After these were completed, I acquired a pair of ESS LS8 woofers with alnico magnets, refoamed these and replaced the RS woofers.
All of these were just fun, erector set projects with NO engineering whatsoever. So there is no preconceived notion of great performance. These are merely supplemental speakers which are stacked with the main ESS speakers in the system. They all play together all the time.
Checking back a year and half later and saw this post, fun little project and some good ideas. One thought is the x-over point in the factory AMT Monitors was 800hz and to balance out the output of the Great AMT Heil, you'd need the rest of the big cabinet and the added passive radiator to keep up on the lower mid to bottom end IF you did not modify the crossover and pad down the Heil some more [which would be a bummer to have to do]. If you tried a more efficient woofer to keep up with the AMT, that would be cool.
As I recall, Automojo or one of the guys here was using either Eminence or Peerless woofers as a replacement with some success and matching to the great heil in the AMT3 configuration. I did some research with Dave at DCGold some and he was padding down the AMTs a bit, and I was asking him to try the reverse, adding a 2nd woofer instead to bring up the bottom end some so you don't have to pad down the Heil as much. A few years ago he tried it and sent me a video and both he and his wife commented how much more of a good thing was being output.
Another plug - try running the AMT Great Heil with good dual 8" woofers and cross over at 1200hz, and it really starts to come to life and saves the AMT diaphragm much longer. Different ways to try it.
Maybe others will chime in. So many new speakers coming out with AMT diaphragms now, calling them Jet, Folded Ribbons, other... all of us here know where it started though in 1973
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Leben
Super Member
My most recent Heil hybrid build are 2 ways using 8" Stephens full range drivers and large Heils. I run the Stephens full range and bring in the Heils where the Stephens starts to roll off. I put this together because I recently sold my AMT3s and missed the Heil magic. These don't cover the low end as well but they are great for most of the music that I listen to.
Leben
Super Member
They’re great, aren’t they? They came from a pretty talented AKer that I respect.I really like those smoked acrylic stands for the Heils!
Leben,
Nice! Reminds me a bit of the original AMT1 speakers with tall narrow cabinet, amt on top. Gotta question for ya about the "low end".
By chance did you or someone who designed the cabinet happen to make them into a transmission line or bass reflex type enclosure?
-something like this to pick up some low end, same as original AMT1 had. Some general diagrams here, for example:
TL;
or this type of bass reflex enclosure...
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