DAC's sound improvement?

L'wood

Active Member
As I have an older CDP, I'm considering a DAC for it but I'm not really familiar with brands or how far back you can go in age and still have a marked improvement. Audiogon has them from $150 up to, well, you know, significantly more than most would spend.

What recommendations can you make for a unit on the lower end, say up to $500 used?

Thanks,

L'wood
 
Look for the Audio Alchemy brand of DAC's. Highly regarded and priced under $500.00. They were gone for a few years but now have resurfaced. As for how far back you can go? Well technically any and every advance in DAC design *should* be an improvement over the old design, but in practice this doesn't always hold true. Still, I would stick with a reputable brand/DAC, and try to find the most latest DAC I could afford.

Jimmy
 
I'll probably get flamed for this, but it's doubtful you'll really hear a marked improvement unless you have ridiculously good hearing. Spend your cash on more integral components, or upgrade the CD player to a newer model with better circuitry and you should be fine...
 
benricci said:
or upgrade the CD player to a newer model with better circuitry and you should be fine...

By this you mean better DAC's, thus contradicting the first half of your statement. There are no electronic components that play a bigger role in sound quality in a CD player than it's DAC's.
 
I'm with Jimmy on this one, with one caveat:

Depending on the age of your CDP and its configuration, a separate DAC may or may not help. Does your CDP have a coax digital output? If so, all should be well.

If it only has TOSLINK (fiber-optical) you might (or might not) have a problem. The early CDPs used optical converters that were...ummm... lousy. Basically, they introduce significant quantities of jitter, and thus sound bad. Do a search here and you can find another thread where one of the digital gurus explains the whole thing in detail.

Assuming you get past that, get the latest DAC you can, meaning a 24/192. My experience is that they in fact sound better. I have DACs with 20bit-8x oversampling, 24/96, 24/192, and 24/768. Leave out the top dog due to price, and the 24/192 easily beats the others. I think anyone with a McIntosh MX-135 (24/192) will tell you how much better it sounds than an MX-134 (24/96).

I'm not good with makes and models, but the most cost-effective 24/192 is what you're looking for. With that, you'll basically have it as good as it gets for any reasonable price. Can anyone suggest some units?
 
"By this you mean better DAC's, thus contradicting the first half of your statement. There are no electronic components that play a bigger role in sound quality in a CD player than it's DAC's."

No, I'm saying a separate DAC with an old CD Player may not make a marked difference. Buy a newer CD player with a better DAC than the one in your current, older CD Player and that should do the job just fine. It may be cheaper and will reduce the clutter of adding potentially unnecessary components to your system.
 
L'wood said:
As I have an older CDP, I'm considering a DAC for it but I'm not really familiar with brands or how far back you can go in age and still have a marked improvement. Audiogon has them from $150 up to, well, you know, significantly more than most would spend.

What recommendations can you make for a unit on the lower end, say up to $500 used?

Thanks,

L'wood


http://diyparadise.com/dackit/1545bdackit.html


Get a one of these dacs for 125US and then buy you a good DVD player as your transport or just buy a transport...

This is the best sounding way to go for the money…

ACK and Scott Nixon stuff are good as well…

Just my 2cents...
 
I wish I could do a DIY, that looks like a nice unit.

Any experience with a Monarchy Audio Model 22A?

Thanks,

L'wood
 
I agree with Benricci. All my experiences with external DACs have been minimal, if any improvement. Better to spend money on a good preamp. If you are a DIY person, I found the inexpensive Toshiba 3950 (must do the mods), is amazing. If you use only cds and really want to save money, you can build a simple DIY passive volume control instead of a preamp.
 
L'wood said:
I wish I could do a DIY, that looks like a nice unit.

Any experience with a Monarchy Audio Model 22A?

Thanks,

L'wood


You could email them and ask how much it would cost it have it all put togather. 90% of it is already done though. Monarchy stuff is ok however I dont think its worth the extra money. This dac with low cost new Pioneer DVD player would be better than an old CD player and that Monarchy IMO...

I have missed around the Cal, Rotel, Art, MSB and other dacs and I like this combo the best. And its much cheaper... :yes:
 
I had Mike Williams do the Toshiba DVD; I was reading about it online when surfing, searached ebay and once I saw one, I realized there was one in my bedroom. It does sound good and listen to it in one system. The other system I'm using an Eastern Electric MiniMax tube player...it sounds very good.

Hard to upgrade the preamp, I'm using a Melos Sha-Gold tube unit that replaced a McIntosh C15, which for SS, is also very good...and I sometimes pull out the Sansui AU-717 to use as a preamp for the phono input that has a sweet sound to it.

Decided to go with the Monarchy unit, used at $300 which is the going rate, so if I don't like it, should be easily resold...I'll update with review when received.

L'wood
 
My experience with the Toshiba 3950 and Ack Dack 2.0 >>

In the past I've had a few decent CD players (Cary, Meridian, Audio Aero Capitole) and I liked them all for different reasons.

Out of curiosity I purchased a Toshiba 3950 ($49, Amazon.com). I didn't like the sound in the stock form. So, I had it modified with all of the "Vinnie" mods.
After a break-in period, the player had many of the attributes of some of my former (more expensive) CD players - but ultimately it was not as satisfying.

Wanting to "do digital" on the cheap, I researched some DAC options. I decided on the Ack Dack 2.0 - and found one on Audiogon for $500. When it arrived I mated it with the Toshiba 3950 (used as a transport) and was absolutely FLOORED by what I was hearing (or NOT hearing). The Ack Dack (as everyone probably knows) is a battery operated unit. Thus, it doesn't pick up "AC grunge" - the background is "black" and "quiet". The rhythmic drive was startling. There was MUSIC! Doing a search, I found the Toshiba player actually makes a very good transport. Remember, I had it modified... so it has some extra damping and such, which I'm sure makes a nice difference. I also had an IEC installed so I could use an aftermarket power cord - and although there is much debate as to the benefit of these, I definitely heard a nice improvement in my system.

Total outlay:

$49 for the Toshiba
$125 for the mods
$500 for the Ack Dack 2.0

Total Cost: $674

Yes, there are other options out there - and probably some that sound even more musical for around the same cash outlay (on the used market)... but all I can say is after having some CD players in the past (retailing for up to $5,500) I have stopped yearning to upgrade my source. It just sounds like music to me. If I'm missing any low level details or the last smidgen of "drive" - I don't really care. I'm having too much fun just listening to the music.
 
passion4audio said:
Total outlay:

$49 for the Toshiba
$125 for the mods
$500 for the Ack Dack 2.0

Total Cost: $674

Helping each other get maximum musical bang for the buck, out of new, used, DIY, or whatever... that's what I think AK is here for!
 
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