Deciding what caps to use

Discussion in 'Pioneer Audio' started by NOSaint94, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Young46

    Young46 New Member

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    48
    Location:
    Houston,Texas
    Thanks to all who have responded! I had the Nichicon caps in some parts that I purchased earlier so if they were compatible it made sense to use them. Very good information though considering that the caps on MTF's list are obsolete and for novices like me who don't have the knowledge and experience about what is desirable beyond the specs...like the low level hiss in some caps for example.
     
  2. Stathis

    Stathis New Member

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    1
    Just finished the recap.
    I'm flying in the moon with the results!
    Thanks for the help, i would never attempt to do it by myself.
    Markthefixer you are pure gold.
     
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  3. Motnick

    Motnick Active Member

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    127
    Location:
    Wyandotte Michigan
     
  4. dlucy

    dlucy dlucy67 (Doug) Subscriber

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    Location:
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    Good questions! Nicely formatted!

    For "AWR057,8 c17 22 25 cea 647-UPW1h220mdd" the following work fine and are in stock:

    647-UPW1H220MDD1TD
    647-UPW1H220MDD1TA

    For "AWE043 c66 0.1 25 cssa 598-DSF050J" the following work fine (high quality film cap 0.1uF >50VDC 5mm lead spacing) and are in stock:

    667-ECQ-E2104KB

    For "AWH033 vr3 & vr4 10k 652-3296Y-1-103LF" the following work fine and are in stock:

    652-3296Y-1-103 (different metal content in the leads, makes no difference)
    652-3296W-1-103LF (same thing except the three leads are in a straight line rather than staggered. You could make this work if you needed to [bend one lead or drill extra hole in PCB])
     
  5. Motnick

    Motnick Active Member

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    127
    Location:
    Wyandotte Michigan
    Thanks for the quick response! Your help and advice is greatly appreciated as I am still new at this.

    I have learned from reading this forum that it is normal to go up in voltage when picking caps, but the capacitance must remain the same as the original. This cap that you suggested is listed as 250V, and the original was a 25V. Is it normal to go this much higher? I noticed that most of the caps on MTF's list only jump up one size in voltage. Not questioning the choice, only trying to learn more about how to choose the correct cap for a given application.
     
  6. dlucy

    dlucy dlucy67 (Doug) Subscriber

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    Location:
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    You can safely go up higher and higher in voltage handling in a cap, just understand that the physical size of the cap increases, too. A 250 VDC cap will work perfectly at only 25 VDC. If you can get a lower voltage cap, say a 50 V or 63 V one, use that instead. In this case, I selected based on exact capacitance match, a film cap, a trusted high quality brand and series (Panasonic), and lead spacing the same as the MTF recommendation. 250 VDC was the lowest one that matched all the other criteria. I could have found a Nichicon or a CD, but I like Panasonic better.

    The old recap lists are always going out of date and needing or getting updated. It's good to build up you ability to select your own caps as it is common the one specified long ago isn't available any more or is too expensive and you'll need to find a suitable replacement... replacement.
     
  7. Motnick

    Motnick Active Member

    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Wyandotte Michigan
    Thanks for your input. Being able to build my own BOM list some day is exactly what I hope to achieve.

    One more question if I can: I do not see the two large filter caps listed in MTF's original list. Are these two caps not usually included in the replacement process?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  8. dlucy

    dlucy dlucy67 (Doug) Subscriber

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    Location:
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    So, you must be talking about c2 and c3, the 6800 uF / 50 VDC pair in the power supply circuit. I don't know why those would be left off the list. They shouldbe included in any recapping.

    Since they are in the power supply circuit (and therefore not part of the signal path), you want electrolytic caps that have low ESR and high ripple.

    Low ESR means less of the current running through them gets turned into heat (loss) since there is lower "effective series resistance". In power supply caps you want them to be as low ESR as you can get so they rob less of the current going through them.

    High ripple is also desirable as the incoming ripple (the leftover unrectified sine wave from the original AC) is smoothed more than lower ripple.

    You can sort on ripple or ripple current in Mouser once you get to electrolytic caps. You want the highest... mostly. You'll also want to consider diameter (to best fit your original hole and buckle around the cap) and termination type.

    The original caps there might be snap-in or lug (spade style) terminals. Or they made be screw in. You buy the ones you can find that fit and know you can modify the terminals to suit your needs.

    One often recommended line of low ESR and high ripple capactiors is Nichicon PW or UPW series. I like those myself. However, they are not available as high as 6800 uF at 50 VDC. So, you might do what I do: look for an electrolyitc cap with 6800 uF or 1-2 sizes larger, 50 VDC or 1-2 voltages higher, and a diameter of (whatever your original caps were) and lower. If you caps were 50mm diamter, you'd look for a replacement cap of 50mm or smaller. You can always wrap something around the caps to make their diameter big enough to fit snuggly in the old buckle. The way I read the Mouser results, if you were a stickler for the original capacitance you might chose 647-LLS1J682MELB since it has the highest ripple 4500mA for less than $5 each.
     
  9. dlucy

    dlucy dlucy67 (Doug) Subscriber

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    Location:
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    I am no means an expert, not compared to an E.E. or any of the other AK'ers here. That being said, here are some posting that may help you build your own ideas and way of building a BOM:

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...ade-bom-part-list.739572/page-4#post-10049700

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...ade-bom-part-list.739572/page-3#post-10032629

    Good luck, keep on asking questions, don't get discouraged, and have fun!
     
  10. Motnick

    Motnick Active Member

    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Wyandotte Michigan
    I have already placed the order for all of the parts on the list including the substitutions that you guys suggested to me. I am planning to start with the power supply board, but the replacement capacitor that I received for C7 does not seem correct. The part that I received has Radial terminal leads, but the C7 capacitor on my power supply board has axial leads.

    Did I order the wrong part? Can someone help suggest an alternate part number that I can use in place of 647-UPW1H102MHD? Or is their a way to use the radial terminal replacement in place of the original capacitor?

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

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    See my reply in your thread. There may not have been a TVX series available in that value/voltage. I did my 737 with the Radial and it doesn't hurt it at all.
     
  12. buffdriver

    buffdriver Member

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    71
    Location:
    Seguin, Texas
    I've used 647-TVX1J102MCD, which is 1000uF/63v, but at $4.26 it's not particularly cheap. As Larry said, the part that you received will work.
     
  13. Motnick

    Motnick Active Member

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    127
    Location:
    Wyandotte Michigan
    This is how I handled it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. dlucy

    dlucy dlucy67 (Doug) Subscriber

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    Yep, just use the radial cap. The way you did is fine.
     
  15. suitekids

    suitekids AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Palm Springs, FL
    need help please, a suitable replacement for 598-DSF050J224 it's obsolete, for the the protection board C1 and C2

     
  16. dlucy

    dlucy dlucy67 (Doug) Subscriber

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  17. Syn_Error

    Syn_Error New Member

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    This is the capacitor that I used on my protection board. Currently my SX-737 is running with it just fine.
     
  18. suitekids

    suitekids AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Palm Springs, FL
    I did find one close to the one MTF suggested, KEMET F612JF224J063A, it matches, except it's 63v instead of 50v.
     
  19. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

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  20. Tarquineous

    Tarquineous New Member

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    You did not mention what a "737" is, except for solid state. But I would say for any solid state re-cap, don't be afraid to use a few Elna Silmic electrolytics. They are top quality for sound quality. I've used some myself with good results. I got the idea from a capacitor test where the technician could switch in and out four different brands. He used Panasonic, Nichicon, Black Gate, and Elna Silmic. The latter two sounded better than the other two. You only need one or two per channel according to those who actually installed them. FYI.
     

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