Denon 103, 103R, 301......Which one would you get?

Jim Creek

Jazz, Wine, Electronics
It's time for me to upgrade to a LOMC.

Cost wise from low to high, Denon 103, Denon 301, Denon 103R, which of those three would YOU get?
 
Either the DL-103 or DL-103r plus a heavy headshell would be a pretty good match for your PL-41.
 
If you have the Blue point 2 and the DL 110 I don't think you will gain much. What are you using to boost the low output?
 
I don't have a SUT yet. I'm waiting until I decide on a LOMC cartridge.

The BP2 and DL110 are HOMC. Thay don't need a SUT.
 
Which cartridge depends on which arm.

I have used my DL 301 MK II on a 6.5g effective mass arm with no problem; I also added two additional grams to the headshell and it was even better. I also use it with a 12g eff mass arm and it sings beautifully. This is a LOMC for low mass to low medium mass arms. I see it working really great in the 9-13 eff mass range.

The DL 103 prefers medium to high medium mass arms. I would say >14grams to easily 22g eff mass.

They are definitely for different applications.

When I compared my DL 301 to the my DL 110 the 301 is clearly better in all aspects.
 
I would recommend the 103R. I tried both the standard 103 and the 103r on an Empire 98 tonearm made in 1961. The Denon 103R sounded much better than the standard 103. The high frequencies such as cymbals sounded veiled, rolled off and woolly on the standard 103. The 103R sounded more transparent, vibrant and natural.
 
I bought a stock DL-103 for my first LOMC because, well... it's the original model that the other variations are derived from. It's charming my socks off!

I will say that it really likes a lot of arm mass. I have a Jelco SA-750D (eff. mass: 20g w/headshell), and adding some additional weight to the counterweight (a large washer affixed with BlueStik) and to the headshell (3g insert plate) REALLY made things pop. Bass got phatter and tighter, dynamics became more impactful, and the imaging really expanded.

Folks buy a DL-103 because it's cheap and has such a strong reputation, and then they are often disappointed. It relies heavily on a strong supporting cast to show what it's really capable of. Anything less and it won't work out so well.
 
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You might also want to consider the ZU/DL-103 Mk II. A lot of guys really like it. Unfortunately, the price is now up to $459.
 
The DL103 is a good value cartridge though currently owning a variety of Denons (2x modded DL103, 1x modded SL103D, 1x DL301 Mk2, 1x modded DL303) I can honestly say that a used Supex SD900 (any of them) with a retip will absolutely destroy the Denon range (until you get to the higher end, more expensive models - DL305, DL1000A, DL-S1 etc) after a retip. Ditto the Fidelity Research FR-1 Mk3. You can usually pick the SD900 or FR-1 Mk3 for a song online too. If you want new then to better the DL103 you really do have to spend more.
 
I agree that the SD900 will out perform the 103, but the difference is quite subtle, just a bit of (what I call air or fine detail) that can only be heard on the better grades of speakers that are setup properly.. The chance of finding a Supex, is very rare, and the re-tip would cost another $400. Being the nut I am, i compared the 103 to an old Koetsu Rosewood Long Body, which is a slightly newer version of the Supex, and no matter how I setup the 103 it could not produce the realistic sound stage of the Koetsu.
 
I've never compared the 2 but I am very happy with my 301. Actually I am running 2 of them currently. One on a thorens and the other on a VPI.
 
It's time for me to upgrade to a LOMC.

Cost wise from low to high, Denon 103, Denon 301, Denon 103R, which of those three would YOU get?
Don't know why these two are directly compared, I am assuming for one in the same turntable-tonearm combination?
Definitely two different animals and definitively so
I'm not questioning you specifically Jim Creek, I just see this question often
 
The std. DL-103 doesn't have a lot of high frequency extension so some may think it is dull. After you get used to the sound of the cart. you don't even notice it. You just focus on the great mid-range and bass. I don't miss the high frequency extension at all. As a mater of fact I think that most carts. that the highs are extended sound un-natural. But that's just me and my tastes...
 
The std. DL-103 doesn't have a lot of high frequency extension so some may think it is dull. After you get used to the sound of the cart. you don't even notice it. You just focus on the great mid-range and bass. I don't miss the high frequency extension at all. As a mater of fact I think that most carts. that the highs are extended sound un-natural. But that's just me and my tastes...
'Bout the millionth time I've read this almost identical characterization of this cart
You know, I never listen to cartridges that way, or any piece of equipment
I just listen to the music and make comparisons to what I've heard before or other cartridges that I own - go from there on whether I like it or not or if a change is in order
I don't know what other people are hearing, or not, or what it is they base their impressions on (spec sheets maybe?)
But I know one thing for sure, there ain't NOTHING dull sounding about a DL-103
My hearing sucks and I am always wanting for "more highs" and details
Maybe I got real lucky and everything just lined up right 'cause my first DL-103 saved me
I bought a second one!
 
Never been a fan of the 103 or 103R, so my vote would be for the 301 mk II. Actually I like the 103M but that is a rare with little in common with the other 103 cartridges. I also own a 304, and have a bit of an appreciation for the 300 series cartridges.

I have owned a Sound Smith retipped 103 in an ebony body. Good cartridge, but at that cost you run into some worthy competition.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
I agree that the SD900 will out perform the 103, but the difference is quite subtle, just a bit of (what I call air or fine detail) that can only be heard on the better grades of speakers that are setup properly.. The chance of finding a Supex, is very rare, and the re-tip would cost another $400. Being the nut I am, i compared the 103 to an old Koetsu Rosewood Long Body, which is a slightly newer version of the Supex, and no matter how I setup the 103 it could not produce the realistic sound stage of the Koetsu.

Interesting, the difference wasn't subtle in either of my systems. The Supex SD900 Rosewood (longbody) had a noticeably better soundstage and air, bass is solid and meaty sounding. Heck, depending on the arm used it in some instances outperformed my Koetsu Rosewood (gold pins).

The S.A.M Calista II tonearm improved bass, dynamics and solidity of both Supex and Koetsu carts. With the Koetsu it was just too much for my tastes, though the Supex on this arm sounded like the Koetsu on my Fidelity Research FR-54.

The Fidelity Research FR-54 is a softer sounding arm, though enhances the soundstage on both carts. I'd describe it as very analogue sounding vs the Hi-Fi sound attained with the Calista II

On the other hand my Denon carts don't lack high end extension at all. They have been retipped with a shibata though. No better cart out there for modification ;)

Definitely nothing dull about the 103. It's an incredibly dynamic cart.
 
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