Diode troubles causing protection circuit intermittents resolved in SX-650

DerekR

New Member
Recently did a recap and refurb of a craigslist SX-650, which was all electrolytics except for the tuner board and a variety of suggested transistors in power amp board and equalizers boards. When I was done, I was getting intermittent protection circuit triggering that I couldn't resolved.

Q14 & Q15 were replaced, I could measure the voltage on Q15's collector start at 32V, discharge down to 8V and the relay would engage on the way, then it would intermittently kick back up to 32V. I had around 21V on the cathode of D7, D8, & D9 steady during all of the protection circuit occurrances and I couldn't figure out why Q15 was seemingly unbiasing.

I did two things that after the fact that seem to have helped:
1) Tapped the solder joins on the high power/high voltage (HOT!) transistors on the power amp GWR-101 board with the soldering iron to reflow, in case they had some heat induced stress. Still had occasional, though less often, protection circuit triggers.
2) Removed and replaced D12, the relay coil inductive suppression diode on GWR-101 with a 1N4148 I had in a spare parts box.

The diode seemed to do the trick. I checked the old diode with my DMM and it tested well to the 'diode test' mode, though if it was an intermittent P-N junction problem, I wouldn't expect it to do anything.

My hypothesis is that years of inductive kickback on the coil caused some latent damage to that relay that was only prevalent in use.

Hope this helps someone else in the future.
 
UPDATE: After about a week of no issues, intermittent protection circuit started kicking in again. This time I was able to trace it down to the cathode of D7 hovering around 4-7V. Pulled the diode and relay pulls in after muting delay like I expected. I guessed that the issue was either one of the power amps faulting, or one of the overload transistors Q5 or Q6 performing intermittently.

Went through my parts from the recap and found ONE KSC2383YTA spare, so took a chance and pulled Q5. Replaced D7 with a 1N4148, turned on and everything powered up as it should. This lead me to believe the issue was either with the Q1 SP-40W power amp, or with the Q5 NPN transistor.

Replaced Q5 with the last remaining KSC2383YTA, and I see a solid ~21V on the cathode of D7 again! All appeared to power up fine now.

Spinning some records this morning and hopefully all is resolved! *knock on wood*
 
BLAH Spoke too soon. Was rock solid for a few minutes then cutting in and out again.

Pulled D7 out and it's still cutting in and out intermittently.

The high side of R47, R49, etc is a solid 34.44V, but even with D7 pulled the base of Q13 (anode of D8 & D9) is all over the place from 16V - 21V, usually hovers around 19-21V.

In fact as I'm typing, it's consistently in protection and the base of Q13 is down to 13mV hovering around 0V.

I still see a solid 20.5 - 21V on the cathode of D8 & D9.

Is it likely for R47 (150k) to be bad and providing poor pull up? I'll need to dig in further to figure out how the Q13, Q14, Q15 circuit works with all the biasing and voltage dividers and capacitor charging.
 
Reading through this thread: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sx-650-protection-circuit-issue.551107/

Per this quote from Markthefixer:
wire wraps RARELY need to be soldered. it looks :puke:

remove q14 temporarily and see if the turn on time delay works and the relay pulls in.

then replace q14 and remove q13 and see if it STILL pulls in after being turned back on after an appropriate time delay.

THEN pull FU1 (pins 9 & 10) and see if the protect drops out (and all lights except the stereo indicator will go off)


next would be d7 (two channels of over current shutdown) , d8, d9 (both for dc protect of both channels) inputs pulled when q13 installed
check everything above.

report results, stop when not working right and we'll start troubleshooting at that point.

I removed Q13 and replaced D7 (which doesn't appear to be problematic). Haven't reinstalled a KSC992FBU in it's place yet. Going to listen to some music and see if protection kicks back in or not. Three minutes... so far so good...
 
Got through one side of a record with zero protection interrupts, which were happening every 5-20 seconds. So replaced Q13 with a KSC992FBU I had left over from the recapping. Playing side B now, so far so good.
 
I'm claiming a cautious victory for the fourth time this project. I even put on the wooden cover and put in the screws!
 
Got through one side of a record with zero protection interrupts, which were happening every 5-20 seconds. So replaced Q13 with a KSC992FBU I had left over from the recapping. Playing side B now, so far so good.

lol, you mean a ksA992fbu??

I'm claiming a cautious victory for the fourth time this project. I even put on the wooden cover and put in the screws!

Congratulations. troubleshooting looks solid, I expect you nailed it.
 
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