DIY full range driver info
- Thread starter Wardsweb
- Start date
Audio_Builder
Member
What about the Altec A7 speakers you were working on?
Thatch_Ear
Addicted Member
Wards,
The 4" drivers that are in Minimus 7 RS speakers work very well. Also if you want the horn itself the be for bass responce use carpet tubing and the concrete foundation tubes cut into section to make the turns. The highs won't travel the round corners, use sound absorbsortion close to the driver for standing waves and a scoop for the base.
The plans for a Jericho are a bit easier having less folds than the one you have pictured. Perpindicular lines are not a good thing and a chamber behind the driver is recomemnded. Standing waves wiill really screw up your midrange which is the strong point of single driver horns and Voights of which that pic is not (Voight)
The 4" drivers that are in Minimus 7 RS speakers work very well. Also if you want the horn itself the be for bass responce use carpet tubing and the concrete foundation tubes cut into section to make the turns. The highs won't travel the round corners, use sound absorbsortion close to the driver for standing waves and a scoop for the base.
The plans for a Jericho are a bit easier having less folds than the one you have pictured. Perpindicular lines are not a good thing and a chamber behind the driver is recomemnded. Standing waves wiill really screw up your midrange which is the strong point of single driver horns and Voights of which that pic is not (Voight)
Hornphile
Member
If you find a driver such as you are describing please let me know. My feeling with full range drivers are that they are usually so stretched over the octave band that they either battle with the bottom end or top end. I would recommend trying to get a driver that claims to be full range but rolls out at the top. Realistically they usually reach 15-17k. My finding is that the softer suspended drivers make better bass in horns. I would run it full range and just add a tweeter with a simple 1st order cross over at the top. I will take a look in my Martin catalog and see what is available. Try getting something with higher efficiency. Preferably 92db or more. I think Radio Shack should have something like that. Also lower Q sounds more neutral to me.
Let me know if you need help on that horn.
Let me know if you need help on that horn.
Audio_Builder - This for a different project. The Altec A7 825 cabinet done ala Magnificients are done and can be seen on my web site under Audio- Speakers-Altec.
Thatch - Yea the pic is not a voight, but I didn't know what it was called other than folded horn. It is my understanding the Voight would have a single internal baffle running about 3/4 the way up and slanted front to back?
Anyway, just playing around with some ideas. There is no way for me to catch up with you and Rob on speaker design.
I've been looking a several designs here:
http://melhuish.org/audio/diy.htm
I like the "less compromised horn" more for esthetics than anything else. I like smooth curves.
Thatch - Yea the pic is not a voight, but I didn't know what it was called other than folded horn. It is my understanding the Voight would have a single internal baffle running about 3/4 the way up and slanted front to back?
Anyway, just playing around with some ideas. There is no way for me to catch up with you and Rob on speaker design.
I've been looking a several designs here:http://melhuish.org/audio/diy.htm
I like the "less compromised horn" more for esthetics than anything else. I like smooth curves.
Thatch_Ear
Addicted Member
That was Fred and his Voights. Ear level they were amazing but were a bit focused as far as a sweet spot goes. All around great sounding speakers though.
Thatch_Ear
Addicted Member
Wards,
The only time my Lady came out and said something sounded really good in my speaker building was a small Jericho modified with a scoop that had a driver from a Minimus 7 in it. There was much talk in the single and full range driver forums of a RS 4"er and I have a pair of those, they are not as good as the 4"ers in the Minimus 7s which go for around $25/pair on Ebay.
The only time my Lady came out and said something sounded really good in my speaker building was a small Jericho modified with a scoop that had a driver from a Minimus 7 in it. There was much talk in the single and full range driver forums of a RS 4"er and I have a pair of those, they are not as good as the 4"ers in the Minimus 7s which go for around $25/pair on Ebay.
Thatch_Ear
Addicted Member
Johan,
You build some baffles to hold a 4" to fit those small folded horns and we can take apart the Minimus 7s in my truck and give a listen.
You build some baffles to hold a 4" to fit those small folded horns and we can take apart the Minimus 7s in my truck and give a listen.
sasaki kojiro
Active Member
I may build a pair too.
Ward's pic is of the standard Fostex design for their FE103 (4") driver. They also have designs for 6" and 8" drivers.
Why are perpendicular lines not good, and where are the standing waves being generated?
Here's a link to the Jericho plans (clic My System>Speaker).
http://members.aol.com/uhaumann/index.htm
BuschhornII
http://hometown.aol.de/hphinder/homepage/index.html
Ward's pic is of the standard Fostex design for their FE103 (4") driver. They also have designs for 6" and 8" drivers.
Why are perpendicular lines not good, and where are the standing waves being generated?
Here's a link to the Jericho plans (clic My System>Speaker).
http://members.aol.com/uhaumann/index.htm
BuschhornII
http://hometown.aol.de/hphinder/homepage/index.html
Thatch_Ear
Addicted Member
SK,
A round tube will generate a single standing wave. When you have surfaces that are perinidular the standing waves are bouncing around.
If you have looked in an old cabinet and noticed that half of the flat surfaces had fiberglass attached it was to defeat standing waves.
In the first photo that Wards posted you will notice that the whole thing is made with 4 perpindicalar sides and often 5 then there will be a problem with the standing waves all the way through the structure. When it happens close to the driver the reflections will often muddy up the mids which are the stronegest point of having a single driver.
In my mind the only advantage that design has is that it has only 90* cuts and is therefore easier to build.
A round tube will generate a single standing wave. When you have surfaces that are perinidular the standing waves are bouncing around.
If you have looked in an old cabinet and noticed that half of the flat surfaces had fiberglass attached it was to defeat standing waves.
In the first photo that Wards posted you will notice that the whole thing is made with 4 perpindicalar sides and often 5 then there will be a problem with the standing waves all the way through the structure. When it happens close to the driver the reflections will often muddy up the mids which are the stronegest point of having a single driver.
In my mind the only advantage that design has is that it has only 90* cuts and is therefore easier to build.
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sasaki kojiro
Active Member
Thatch,
That makes sense, as it might be a simplified design to promote DIY sales for Fostex.
That makes sense, as it might be a simplified design to promote DIY sales for Fostex.
John EH
Active Member
Wardsweb,
Since I'm in Japan I couldn't figure out what the heck was primer or sealer or paint and my wife wasn't around to translate.
I ran a sander across once with 100 grit, again with 240 grit then rubbed in a coat of black poly to let the paint soak in a bit and give me a base to work with.
Topped it off with three light coats then applied the stickers after about 6 hours. 1st and 2nd coat must have been about .5 mil and the finish coat probably was around 1 mil. Total thickness I'm guessing was just over 2 mils taking into account what was rubbed in
I did a tape test with some 3M tape that adheres with 40 lbs per square inch and snatched it off. No paint failure. Same standard we use for planes that fly Mach 2. Hopefully these horns will never hit mach, but if they do the paint won't peel.
Thanks for the nice comments.
John
Since I'm in Japan I couldn't figure out what the heck was primer or sealer or paint and my wife wasn't around to translate.
I ran a sander across once with 100 grit, again with 240 grit then rubbed in a coat of black poly to let the paint soak in a bit and give me a base to work with.
Topped it off with three light coats then applied the stickers after about 6 hours. 1st and 2nd coat must have been about .5 mil and the finish coat probably was around 1 mil. Total thickness I'm guessing was just over 2 mils taking into account what was rubbed in
I did a tape test with some 3M tape that adheres with 40 lbs per square inch and snatched it off. No paint failure. Same standard we use for planes that fly Mach 2. Hopefully these horns will never hit mach, but if they do the paint won't peel.
Thanks for the nice comments.
John
John EH
Active Member
To finish the response they were sprayed with an Airverter Detach III High Volume Low Pressure Paint Gun. Inlet pressure was about 60 psi and outlet pressure was around 10 psi. The air cap and nozzle were sized for medium viscosity materials.
Paint was thinned to about 18 seconds viscosity through a #2 Zahn cup and was of course strained (a couple of times)
Did I mention I was anal?
John
Paint was thinned to about 18 seconds viscosity through a #2 Zahn cup and was of course strained (a couple of times)
Did I mention I was anal?
John
sasaki kojiro
Active Member
John,
Do you have an updated impression on those speakers? Have you thought of going up the line to a 108EZ or 108 Sigma? What speakers were you listening to before that?
Do you have an updated impression on those speakers? Have you thought of going up the line to a 108EZ or 108 Sigma? What speakers were you listening to before that?
John EH
Active Member
Sasaki,
Now that they are well broken in my updated impression is that they have really mellowed, handle bass much better and have a better presentation of mids and highs. Just snuck by my office and had a cranked up listen session to track 6 (don't know the name) of John Coltrane, Coltrane For Lovers.
Just breathtaking. The cymbals are crisp and the Jazz is HOT!
Kind of scared to go the 108 route as the cabinets are tuned for the 103 the E model although I'm running the 103M.
I've heard others say the 108 sigma's sound great in the 103 back load cabinets but I'm pretty content with what I've got.
I would say that it took a couple hundred listening hours to break in the 103M's properly and in fact I'm not even sure they're totally broken in yet as I can sometimes hear improvements or changes. Then again that could be my amps or preamp.
I still think for the money and effort these are more than worth it and they only seem to be getting better.
John
Now that they are well broken in my updated impression is that they have really mellowed, handle bass much better and have a better presentation of mids and highs. Just snuck by my office and had a cranked up listen session to track 6 (don't know the name) of John Coltrane, Coltrane For Lovers.
Just breathtaking. The cymbals are crisp and the Jazz is HOT!
Kind of scared to go the 108 route as the cabinets are tuned for the 103 the E model although I'm running the 103M.
I've heard others say the 108 sigma's sound great in the 103 back load cabinets but I'm pretty content with what I've got.
I would say that it took a couple hundred listening hours to break in the 103M's properly and in fact I'm not even sure they're totally broken in yet as I can sometimes hear improvements or changes. Then again that could be my amps or preamp.
I still think for the money and effort these are more than worth it and they only seem to be getting better.
John
Tonto Yoder
Former member
Moth Cicada driver????
Some similarities to Lowthers--a little bigger than you intended.
Retail is $119/each but SpeakerCity may have them for $90 (one page says $90, another says $120).
http://www.speakercity.com/MothAudio/cicada.shtml
BTW, the assembled Cicadas retail for $700 and were recently on sale for $600. I hear that Moth has an amp as well!
Some similarities to Lowthers--a little bigger than you intended.
Retail is $119/each but SpeakerCity may have them for $90 (one page says $90, another says $120).
http://www.speakercity.com/MothAudio/cicada.shtml
BTW, the assembled Cicadas retail for $700 and were recently on sale for $600. I hear that Moth has an amp as well!
