gfinlayson said:
RickB,
As you should be well aware, there's more to engineering a good recording than power conditioning, mains cables, and high-end signal cables. I've heard some awful recordings made on top-of-the-line studio gear.
I don't think the likes of Canare, Belden and Van Damme would be best pleased to hear their cables described as 'old crap'. They make some of the best quality 'pro' cables in the industry using high quality materials developed from years of research and design.
Yeah, I have heard some of their stuff..it's ok...but just...in 1985 when I started my trek back into HI-Fi I believed that the Radio Shack gold ended cables were good enough..and, for the stuff I had then, they may have been....today, though, I really wonder what my Infinty RS-IIIa's, Soundcraftsman PCR800, Onkyo Grand Integra P-308 preamp would have sounded like with different cabling than the Canare (as described in this thread) and original Monster Cable...as it was, it was terribly fatiguing to listen to, and led me to Magneplanars, then to Martin Logans, Lowthers and DIY....and, if you think that Lowthers are ear bleeders, when I took my Third Rethms to a local Bottlehead meeting one of the standout comments was "Wow! I didn't know Lowthers sounded like that! They're not harsh at all..." Part of this was the Rethm enclosure and phase plug, part the Cardas wiring in the speakers and cabling...part was 3 years of break-in...part was the high quality of the DIY amplifiers we were using....
gfinlayson said:
A cable's performace can be distilled down into a handful of factors - resistance, inductance, capacitance, nature of the dielectric material, and EMI/RFI rejection. In other words, science and engineering. Snake oil doesn't come into it.
Geeze, let's see, I started messing with electronics eight years before you were born, have worked as a QA tech at a once-upon-a-time major computer manufacturing company when you were two and three years old, had half a dozen MG's, Austin-Healeys, Triumphs and Jags run thru my garage, a bunch of motorcycles, have had an Advanced Class Ham Radio license for over 15 years (I taught myself the Morse Code and actually worked out the math problems on the tests rather than just memorizing the answers, I did top out at about 15WPM which was good for the Advanced, but I had passed all the writtens including Extra) and have the QSL card verification of talking to the astronauts on a Space Shuttle mission, did a lot of the digital modes via Ham Radio, and I don't care if you believe that cables can sound different or not.
I have heard the difference. I have shown the difference to people that said there was no difference.
Sometimes it's like stepping from a 2004 Honda Accord into a 2005 model...other times it's like stepping out of my 130,000 mi. Nissan 4X4 pickup into my GF's new RX-8...
Yet, I really don't care what electrical parameters cause the change in sound, RCL, strand interaction, silver, copper, aluminum, monkey peepee, whatever, it makes no difference to me, all that matters is what it sounds like.
Many systems do not have the resolution to be able to discern the subtle qualities that cables exhibit, many of my classic pieces of gear do not care very much about the cabling..some do...if your system does not show up the differences between cables, then by all means, DON'T SPEND YOUR MONEY ON THEM and DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME trying other things, just listen to music and be happy!
And the fellow with the recording studio I mentioned in the previous note? Well, he started with a couple of Shunyata power cords on a few key pieces in his studio....he was really converted by HIS OWN EXPERIENCE, not by what anyone told him, not by what he read on the web, but by what he did by himself. He has found the value in his purchases and is beginning to see that small, subtle changes are cumulative in their nature...a little here, a little there, and all of a sudden everything snaps into focus.
gfinlayson said:
Reading your profile, I suspect your views on high-end cables aren't entirely objective coming from one who has a vested interest in selling them.
If you go back thru this entire thread, I suggested a few DIY options that I felt outperformed the Canare for not too much money, the JPS clones, the Chris VH based design, and the DH Labs based cables, even the Cardas Twinlink (which is now being sold in kits by Welborn Labs) are all alternatives that I felt were better....
The fellow I work part time for does not deal with any of the materials I used to make the DIY cables in my mini-review except for the Cardas wire.
We do sell Goertz (which Is why I have some, I am cheap and can buy at dealer cost so WTF not?), we do sell the real JPS products, and we are a Stereovox and Wireworld dealer, too...but nowhere in any of my posts have I suggested someone get in touch with me and buy cables from me or my employer...I am here as my own person, not a sock puppet, and my opinions as inflammatory, wrong-headed, obnoxious, or just poopy-panted are MINE.
That being said, I have had the chance to listen to a LOT of gear, a LOT of cables, and have them at my home, in my system, for extended times to get a handle on how they sound, many folks do not have that chance and I feel VERY lucky to have that ability....and price, as evidenced by my perception of the sound of the WW Equinox IN MY SYSTEM AT THE TIME is really no indication of how I feel something will sound.
So, I did not enter this discussion to smack another AK'ers design idea to the curb, only to offer my insight into this discussion as I had "Been there, Done that" many years before...
It is interesting, though, that the Canare cables did beat an approximately $80 pair of Monster Cable M850i's rather handily, right "out of the box" and in long term listening, in the system described earlier in this thread...the value is there...but, for half the price of the Monster, you can build the Twinlink or DH Labs BL-1, and have a cable that has, in my opinion, a better sound than the Canare....but for the $10 or $15 it costs to make a pair of the Canare cables, well, it's a stone cold slam dunk that they are going to be better than 99.999% of the "gimme" cables that came with your gear or that you can buy at what used to be Radio Shack.
If I had to cap off a final comment to this note it would be:
1.) Start with the Canare
2.) Build something different after getting used to and breaking in the Canare
3.) Listen to the new cable after it settles in for a while...like it more? or less?
4.) Try another design, let it burn-in,settle in, like it? or not?
5.) Have fun playing with your stuff, it costs less than drinkin' and ho-in' in the long run!
Rick