DIY variable loudness?

Karl vd Berg

Super Member
Hi all,

Any chance (circuit) of a passive loudness (or variable loudness) to put between preamp and amp sections of an integrated without any loudness control?

outau317.jpg


Many thanks.
 
If it was me, I'd just copy a variable loudness control from any of the Yamaha amp/receivers of the CR/CA era from any of the schematics available online. However, I'd put it into a tape monitor loop rather than the pre/main loop. All of the Yamaha VLC's are pre-volume, ie., line level.

I'd avoid putting any kind of EQ in the pre/main loop. Your signal-to-noise ratio goes in the dumpster as you reduce volume.
Most of us don't listen to our systems with the volume control "dimed". ;)

Artie
 
I didn't open the links to the loudness kits, etc, but the real problem in copying an existing loudness control design is the availability of the pots. It's hard enough to get ganged log tapered volume controls, let alone ones with a loudness tap.

As you may already well know, a loudness circuit isn't as easy as putting an eq curve in. It involves making the eq change based on volume level.

I've seen some try to home make a loudness tap using resistors and/or Nickel print to create a loudness tap. I haven't heard of any great outcomes with that technique.


These days, it might be easier to implement an electronic, IC based, volume control with a loudness function.
 
If you can swing this it may be worth your while. I love the contour knob on my 3250, I often find myself hitting the tone defeat switch then using the contour get the mix I want.

Good luck, I wonder if these kits and plans could be modified for variable loudness.
 
Hello -
I built the Yamaha variable loudness circuit from the diagram available on line.
yamahaa960variableloudness-jpg.9318


I ran it through the tape loop on my Yamaha amp to test it against the built-in loudness knob. It works - but not nearly as well as the yamaha knob. The effect is very steep at first then gradually dies off and only achieves about 50% of what the Yamaha knob does. I'm wondering if I misread the drawing. The first set of capacitors off the ground input do not have units specified - C249 and C250 are shown as 0.033(K). I read that as 0.033 microF +/- 10%. Could it be 0.033 mF? 0.033F?!? . I'm seriously considering tearing apart my A500 (on it's last legs anyway) to see what's in there but I'm not even sure how to measure it. Plus I'm a structural engineer goofing with audio electronics for kicks and I'm a little leery of messing with high power electronics that I have a half-baked--at-best understanding of. I bet that there's some simple math that can point me to the right units - i.e. the RC circuit is either attenuating or reinforcing some frequency band.

btw - where this is all heading is a passive volume / variable loudness, IR remote controlled "preamp" (those are the only two knobs I ever use) (with Arduino to run the IR controller) sitting between my DIY "Lampizator" DAC and some fairly decent SS amp - yet to be located - feeding Epos ES 14 speakers.

Any help much appreciated
 
I built the Yamaha variable loudness circuit from the diagram available on line.
[snip]
I ran it through the tape loop on my Yamaha amp to test it against the built-in loudness knob. It works - but not nearly as well as the yamaha knob. The effect is very steep at first then gradually dies off and only achieves about 50% of what the Yamaha knob does.
[snip]
Any help much appreciated

Did you use a linear taper pot or log ("audio taper") pot? The A960 schematic you used doesn't specify. I've examined variable loudness schematics from other Yamaha models and find the pots are usually designated as linear taper ("B"). Here are a couple lifted from factory schematics and redrawn for my own reference:

Loudness_Yam_CR-620.png

(CR-640 is similar to CR-620, but includes "Flat" switch contacts when the control is at full off position)

Loudness_Yam_CR-440.png

Notice widely ranging parts value differences between them, though filters are configured similarly. Consistent with A960:

Loudness_Yam_A960.png

If you did use a log taper pot you might try throwing a linear taper in there and see if that doesn't make a difference.
 
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much appreciated Stuart. I assumed audio taper. This is the kind of confusion that one should expect when a structural engineer decided to teach himself to solder. Off to the Mouser web site now. Will report back.

Thanks
 
thanks again for the help
A couple of follow up questions:
1) the 0.033 capacitor is 0.033uF correct?
2) any recommendations for type/brand for
a) capacitors
b) resistors
c) potentiometer
 
thanks again for the help
A couple of follow up questions:
1) the 0.033 capacitor is 0.033uF correct?
2) any recommendations for type/brand for
a) capacitors
b) resistors
c) potentiometer

1) 0.033uF is in fact correct. Here are Yamaha's parts specs for A960:

A960-parts.jpg

2) Assuming Mouser is your goto parts source, here are a few suggestions:

a) The 390p cap is directly in the signal path. If sticking with ceramic, accept nothing less than C0G (NP0) with a 5% tolerance. If building on veroboard with 0.1" grid pattern, I'd consider this AVX cap for its appropriate lead spacing.

[edit] Forgot to mention that this WIMA polypropylene item would also be an excellent choice. 5mm lead spacing though -- but do-able.

Yamaha uses a Mylar (polyester) 0.033uF cap. Here's a Vishay/BC item with 5% tolerance. And again, with 5.08mm lead spacing.

b) Carbon resistors are great for tube gear. But here, I would go with 1/4W, 1% metal film and worry not. Vishay is the touted high quality brand (though I once got a shipment from Mouser of mismarked Vishay resistors -- go figure) but trying to match all your resistor values from the Vishay brand -- much less from the same series -- from a single source can be a challenge. I usually go with Xicon, especially when prototyping. They haven't failed me yet.

c) Much to consider when selecting a potentiometer. Do you need PC board terminals or solder lug style? Then there's shaft style (do you already have a knob set in mind?): knurled, round, "D" cut and rarer "half-round." Two common shaft diameters are 1/4" (6.35mm) and 6mm. Knobs designed for one often don't fit the other. And consider shaft length. Mouser carries an assortment of 100KB dual gang pots. A Bourns or Alpha should afford good service, providing you find the configuration you need.
 
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Noticed that Yamaha changed the parts values for A960II significantly from its predecessor. Intriguing, as it's used in pretty much the same position relative to other stages and components. Maybe they scaled it down for lower resistor noise?

Loudness_Yam_A960II.png

This thread has me itching to build a variable loudness circuit to play with. I have most of these parts already. Considering how little it costs to put one of these together, think I'll just order up parts to build a variety to try and compare. A pot and all parts mounted on a small veroboard -- easy-peasy.
 
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I was thinking about this as well when I got my first 'good' tube preamp - a Conrad Johnson PV6. I bought into the 'no tone control in the signal path is nirvana' hype. HATED it. By all accounts an excellent preamp. Absolutely HATED it. I was thinking of DIY'ing a loudness circuit at that time, but just about then, a really sweet Audio Research SP-3 came up on fleapay. I've had to replace all of the pots, but AR is great in that they stock replacement parts for everything they've ever built! I will never buy a preamp again without some kind of tone control - or better yet variable loudness!

If you end up building the circuit, post some photos and your impressions!
 
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