Do some audiophiles really prefer flat frequency response?

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I've read that some audio purists frown on tone controls and equalization. I've tried to listen to music with a flat response and to me it just sounds awful. Transistor radio-like. It's been proven scientifically that some frequencies are easier heard than others to the human ear. So then why would anyone choose a level graph over something that really sounds good? Especially if you have good equipment that can really make it come to life. I'd love to hear from the purists and anyone with your thoughts on this. .... Sam

From one Sam to another, it's all good. Whatever you prefer works. Don't let yourself be influenced by "audiophile" reviewers.

Personally, I prefer flat response. No tone controls or processing for me. If I am not getting it, I have the luxury of being able to swap gear until I find it. I realize gear swapping is not for everyone.
 
I wish I could get flat response in-room. I've been chasing it for quite a while. I just installed a whole bunch of thick absorption panels in my room to try and tame the 100 Hz to 500 Hz SBIR. I've got 5 bands of PEQ on 4 separate channels of distributed subwoofers just to battle room modes and standing waves for the sub-120 Hz frequencies. Then I'm working on dialing in a house curve to help approximate some of the Fletcher-Munson curve. We enthusiasts listen inside of rooms. Once I discovered proper measuring equipment I realized just how inadequate a simple loudness button or bass/treble control was in taming the effects of long waves bouncing around inside of these rooms. I've found that there is flat, but then there's flat, and once you know about flat, you find out that there is another flat to aim for. It feels like Rick and Morty at this point. If I ever experience true level, I'll never want to go back to anything else.
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You should lighten up a little. There is no perfectly flat room/system. Coming close is IMO more than adequate. How close is close enough is for you to decide. I reached my comfort point when after turning on my rig after a night at The Kimmel Center my sensibilities weren't offended.:biggrin:
 
You should lighten up a little. There is no perfectly flat room/system. Coming close is IMO more than adequate. How close is close enough is for you to decide. I reached my comfort point when after turning on my rig after a night at The Kimmel Center my sensibilities weren't offended.:biggrin:

I'm tellin' ya man, I've been tainted. I've seen response graphs you wouldn't believe. Nulls on fire off center from my MLP, over my left shoulder. I watched boundary interferences glitter in the dark near the Schroeder frequency gate. All those peaks and dips will be lost in time, like reverberating waves. Time to die.
 
So going back to my earlier post; I'm actually sitting here listening to my Steets of Rage II vinyls and have everything set to neutral, loudness off, and it really does sound great.
so I guess in some cases, it really just matters how well something was mastered as to whether its gonna sound good out of the gate or not. I mean this is electronic club/house music so I could crank the bass up a couple notches if I wanted but it still sounds pretty good as is.

It's kind of a troubling realization for me, because I think a lot of the music I have (FLACs sourced from CD etc) sounds like garbage without some kind of EQ'ing with the rare exception of some Alan Parsons stuff. When I say sounds like garbage I just mean tonally, its still listenable etc but a lot of times feels lacking in the low end with "hollow" mids? something like that.
 
So going back to my earlier post; I'm actually sitting here listening to my Steets of Rage II vinyls and have everything set to neutral, loudness off, and it really does sound great.
so I guess in some cases, it really just matters how well something was mastered as to whether its gonna sound good out of the gate or not. I mean this is electronic club/house music so I could crank the bass up a couple notches if I wanted but it still sounds pretty good as is.

It's kind of a troubling realization for me, because I think a lot of the music I have (FLACs sourced from CD etc) sounds like garbage without some kind of EQ'ing with the rare exception of some Alan Parsons stuff. When I say sounds like garbage I just mean tonally, its still listenable etc but a lot of times feels lacking in the low end with "hollow" mids? something like that.

Like we say, enjoy what you want, the way you want, but please, please, please leave off that 's' after vinyl. That does bother me. How you like your sound doesn't... and that 's' shouldn't... you do sound smarter if you leave it off. :biggrin:
 
I'm tellin' ya man, I've been tainted. I've seen response graphs you wouldn't believe. Nulls on fire off center from my MLP, over my left shoulder. I watched boundary interferences glitter in the dark near the Schroeder frequency gate. All those peaks and dips will be lost in time, like reverberating waves. Time to die.

/thread. :beerchug:
 
The thing I don't understand is that you supposedly can't ever correct valleys by bumping up frequencies. If that's the case, why do EQs even have the ability to increase FR, instead of just making cuts?

Step one is to try to adjust using the tone controls. That can help bunches with a simple solution to a relatively decent room.

Next step is the typical graphic sliders most folk try, Yes, those are a bit more flexible than the standard tone controls, but those are the next best thing to useless for accurate tuning except for BIG lumps in the spectrum which should be taken care of with room treatments anyway. A big problem with those is adjusting one slider also affects those around it ... and yes, it leaves those bumps and valleys you mentioned. The more bands available, the more you can minimize that sort of thing, but the problem frequencies can cover an extremely narrow band inside the wide band covered by the slider control and kill a lot of good stuff too.

Next step up the ladder is an analog parametric equalizer that you use to dial in a problem frequency accurately, as a parametric allows you to adjust both the exact center frequency AND exact bandwidth you want to adjust. Those can drive you crazy, as it's difficult to know exactly what the problem frequencies are. Solution there is to test the room using software that can "sweep" the spectrum and show you the actual results in the listening area. There again, the problem is the hard limit on the frequencies you can adjust based on the amount of band controls available on the PEQ.

Ultimate solution is a digital software approach. Do the same frequency sweeps you'd do to test a room when setting up any of the other EQ/PEQ solutions mentioned. Difference is, the frequencies you can adjust are limitless, and you can really dial in a room for perfect response across the spectrum. Here's an example of the level of detail you can get, which runs rings around any other approach ...

(Target frequency, +/- decibels)
10 -4
12.5 -3.5
16 -3
20 -2.5
25 -2
31.5 -1.5
40 -1
41.172 -0.9475
42.379 -0.874
43.62 -0.8015
44.9 -0.75
46.214 -0.6565
47.568 -0.6565
48.962 -0.584
50 -0.5
51.874 -0.435
53.394 -0.361
54.958 -0.2555
56.57 -0.25
58.226 -0.1055
59.932 -0.0585
61.688 -0.0205

Etc, etc, etc, all the way to the top.

I use a hybrid approach here. All my library is now digital, but I still like to spin an SACD or vinyl regularly. The digital software handles all the digital sources, and I use a PEQ for the SACD player and tables. I use the same frequency sweeps used for the software to set up the PEQ, but have to pick and choose the major excursions due to the limited number of controls available on the PEQ.

Technics-SH9010-REW-FEB13.jpg


Still runs rings around what I hear without it.

And just to prove how anal retentive I can be about the whole thing, here's a form I made for setting up the PEQ ...

Technics-SH9010-Plot-rtaFEB.jpg


... and yah ... I know ... I've gone to the dark side. I really need to seek professional help here ... <G>
 
I wish I could get flat response in-room. I've been chasing it for quite a while. I just installed a whole bunch of thick absorption panels in my room to try and tame the 100 Hz to 500 Hz SBIR. I've got 5 bands of PEQ on 4 separate channels of distributed subwoofers just to battle room modes and standing waves for the sub-120 Hz frequencies. Then I'm working on dialing in a house curve to help approximate some of the Fletcher-Munson curve. We enthusiasts listen inside of rooms. Once I discovered proper measuring equipment I realized just how inadequate a simple loudness button or bass/treble control was in taming the effects of long waves bouncing around inside of these rooms. I've found that there is flat, but then there's flat, and once you know about flat, you find out that there is another flat to aim for. It feels like Rick and Morty at this point. If I ever experience true level, I'll never want to go back to anything else.
84dc4581-571e-450f-9612-1f0f0e5da3e4_text_hi.gif

Another candidate for EQ lunatic of the year award. <G>

One thing though. Fletcher-Munson is so, like ... '90's. There's a new standard in town ...

ISO 226:2003
 
You should lighten up a little. There is no perfectly flat room/system. Coming close is IMO more than adequate. How close is close enough is for you to decide. I reached my comfort point when after turning on my rig after a night at The Kimmel Center my sensibilities weren't offended.:biggrin:

Exactly.

I use a pair of Meyer Sound HD-1 monitors for mastering projects. A very listenable pro audio speaker, that's designed for correct phase response and flat frequency response. The designer even went to the trouble to design in the ability to test and calibrate the speaker across 125 frequencies, and adjust each frequency, for flatness. But, when I throw the speakers in a typical listening room or studio, that designed in balance is blown to h*ll. But, they'll get me closer to accurate playback than most speakers will. I'm fine with that! :)
 
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Well so far I've been unable to find an authoritative source one way or the other. So, it's been nice derailing this thread :jump:
 
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