Do you use a subwoofer with music? Why or Why Not?
- Thread starter Flyingbase
- Start date
TomBig58
Super Member
Since I prefer acoustic suspension over ported yes, sometimes the music could benefit from turning on the sub in my 2ch setup. I mostly leave it off though. In my HT setup a sub is a must for action, sci-fi, and war movies.
Does that mean my woofer/cabinet is actually a sub-woofer?
eh...I define a subwoofer as a separate box with a large woofer in it.
I define the Model 8s as a 3-way speaker.
Does that mean my woofer/cabinet is actually a sub-woofer?
twiiii
Lunatic Member
I totally agree for music to be faithfully reproduced the bottom two octaves should be faithfully reproduced in time as well as well in spectrum. I also believe if your using a stereo presentation, it should be full spectrum. One subwoofer is not the answer. I would prefer two and they should be so positioned to be in time with what has now become the mid woofer and midrange. We all know the more sophisticated the crossovers and the more in number the more compromised the presentation and the less life like the creation by the system. So Saying all that, I'll stick with truly full range speaker systems with the necessary dynamic range , low distortion and with full spectrum capability. If I installed 10 systems with subs I installed 50 times that many or if I didn't install them , I had make the systems sound right for unhappy customers. I don't like single sub systems including one of my own. But installing two subs in a RV is all most totally impossible, especially a Class A model with a front entry. So I live with it. Out of all the systems I installed and had to correct only one or two were really nice before I got involved and maybe a dozen passed my preferences when I got done. Of course that was over 14 years ago and technology and products have improved vastly since then. If I have been in 10 shops that claim to be HT specialists I have been in over 100. Maybe 2 or 3 did in right. Be it a Stereo system or a HT system. My HT system has 5 full range speakers reaching below 25 HZ and two side channels that only reach 45 Hz. So I'm happy, very happy without subs . I wish I had another 6 db in dynamic range with low distortion, but that is the compromise I chose.
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Superampman
AK Member
See, that's what happens when you don't read the manual. I had no idea my 205 has bass management. OTOH I do appreciate the tangible. I have a pair of JBL 2269 to take over the Velodynes.
quiet
Addicted Member
But I think a little earthquake in the room from time to time is nice with the movies. I'm not to the point of needing subs for it yet though.
SWL3600
Super Member
I think the biggest problem as far as implementing a sub in a two-channel system is that most are not using some sort of bass management tool.
Having the ability to adjust delay, slope etc. with a DSP device makes all the difference. Dialing in a sub is a PIA for several reasons but when it's right, there's no denying the added benefit. You shouldn't know there's a sub in the system. You should only realize how good the system sounds.....and how much lesser it sounds without.
Having the ability to adjust delay, slope etc. with a DSP device makes all the difference. Dialing in a sub is a PIA for several reasons but when it's right, there's no denying the added benefit. You shouldn't know there's a sub in the system. You should only realize how good the system sounds.....and how much lesser it sounds without.
Using a dozen 24" subs likely works pretty well in this HT. They are located above and below the M2s.I only use a Subwoofer when i watch star wars
"As verified during four days of testing and system calibration, the UberSub system met its target of reproducing bass down to 5 Hz at 120-130 dB with less than 3% total harmonic distortion."
Superampman
AK Member
It's not a pia at all. The fun part is going through your library tweaking it til it's perfect. You really don't need anything but your ears. Actually, YOUR ears.
It's perfect when it stops being fatiguing. Blast those self righteous engineers!
I respectfully disagree. While I am most certainly an observationalist mentored by Harry Pearson and Dr. John Cooledge, I definitely see the value in measuring the results in terms of bass linearity in a given room.
Adding subs involves just too many variables (not to mention variables in recordings) - which I would rather avoid, but find necessary with many systems. I believe you really cannot achieve the most neutral sounding result without using a modicum of objective analysis. At the same time, that doesn't necessarily require DSP although I'm convinced that providing separate high and low pass crossover frequencies maximizes success. At the very least, I would strongly advise using third octave sine wave tones and a phone app to measure SPL to test various possibilities. The goal is not just to provide extension to the mains, but to minimize room modes in the second and third octaves.
I use a Sterephile test disc, Radio Shack SPL meter and a simple Excel spreadsheet containing correction curves for the meter. For each system, I ran dozens of variations of either speaker/bass trap placement and/or numerous settings and level choices. Truly linear bass response is not an easy objective to achieve but worth the effort.
Sound Lab stats upstairs with the freedom of any placement and a small forest of bass traps:
Acoustat 1+1 cum dual subs in smaller family room HT with limited ability to move speakers:
Naturally, a RTA plot would most certainly be more ragged looking, but the use of even basic measurements can provide better results IMHO.
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sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
Beef. It's what's for dinner.
(How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?)
musichal
poet emeritus
Yes, both the main rig and the bedroom set-up have dual subwoofers. Yes, for music. I'm two-channel only here and I set the subs by ear for music, while for stereo video sound I live with whatever results, which can be a bit boomy with the newer films from Hollywood, and for newer serial TV shows, as well. Actually, I rather like the inherent film/TV boom, which can be fun for action films.
However, I spent the money to have low bass for music, and I have the levels set quite low. I enjoy the result.
Everyone has their own opinions regarding subwoofers. Those who may tend to be dogmatic about their way being the best, or only, way to do it should remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Meow. Woof, woof.
However, I spent the money to have low bass for music, and I have the levels set quite low. I enjoy the result.
Everyone has their own opinions regarding subwoofers. Those who may tend to be dogmatic about their way being the best, or only, way to do it should remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Meow. Woof, woof.
SWL3600
Super Member
In addition to what E-Stat said, dialing in multiple subs by ear can be deceiving. The biggest problem is confusing clarity with bass cancellation. It might sound right.....but it ain't right....if ya know what I mean. Bass cancellation is tricky. Some ears can't discern the difference without measuring something.....but I suppose ignorance is bliss and if you're happy with the sound that's all that matters. However, if your subwoofers potential isn't fully achieved.....well, that kinda sucks.
Superampman
AK Member
Glad I know what I like.
You might prefer better.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
If your receiver has room correction software built in and you're not using it you're not getting the best that receiver is capable of producing. If you have an integrated amp or separates the only way to ensure your subwoofer is dialed in properly is to use a calibrated mic take measurements and make the appropriate adjustments. I suggest using REW with a appropriate mic and just about any DSP for equalization.
When a sub(s) is/are dialed in properly there is no need to constantly tweak its settings. The volume control should suffice for changing levels. Ordinary bass and treble controls should be sufficient for trimming program sound. Flatter in room response is just that. It has nothing to do with whether you're listening to music or watching a movie.
FWIW: Most of the auto equalization software in receivers is set with 85dB as the reference level at the mics position.
Flyingbase
Active Member
My reason for starting this thread was I finally bit the bullet and got a sub to compliment my KLH 17s. I figured it was time since I had the bass know turned up and the treble knob turned down to suit my preference. So no I am a proud owner of a M&K MS 100. Can't wait to eventually have dual subs but that will b a long ways in the future for me.
I have two systems. Speakers in the primary setup are good for 30 Hz, so don't really need a subwoofer. However, the secondary system is built around stand-mounted monitors that need a good sub to fill out the lower registersxandcgive the music a solid foundation. At the moment I'm using a single Genesis Advanced Technologies G928, which on its own is a superb subwoofer. However, at some point I would really like to add a second G928 for a true stereo setup.
