Does anyone really know how to set the Anti-skate ona TP-11 tonearm???

[AudioJag]

Does anyone really know how to set the Anti-skate on a TP-11 tonearm??? I've looked everywhere for just a small bit of clarity on setting it..... nada. No one seems to want to touch it.

The user manual is very vague, which includes a table that doesn't really help much.

How 'bout Needlestein, or Marcmorin, or SmartAss.... or any of you smart guys that can figure this out. I thought I was smart enough ...... Wrong!

Maybe that's why it wasn't used for very long.

Thanks for any help on this weird one...... I have only the small weight.

 

[muovimies]

Thorens user manuals have antiskate settings for both dry and wet play - which is also reflected in the TP-16 arm antiskate dial, which has markings for elliptical and conical styli both wet & dry...

I'm under the impression you're supposed to install the weight so you use same notch on both rods. Small weight + notches 1 (the closest to pivot) = 0.5 and notches 6 is 1.5g. For more you'd need the larger weight.

 

[bang4buck]

Pages 12 and 13 here: http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/TT manuals/Thorens/TD166.pdf

 

[tnsilver]

It isn't really complex and the manual is pretty straight forward, except they missed a notch (3) in the small weight dry settings
and they never bother to tell you how to set it (probably b/c a weight on string AS was so common back then, it was deemed obvious).
It's in principal very close to the way mouvimies described it. It applies to all TP-11 versions. It's prominent that the thread of the weight
runs between corresponding notches on the two rods (e.g. #2 with #2, #3 with #3, etc...) or the friction offsets the settings.

 

[AudioJag]

So Tom and muovimies... Thanks .... Let me get this straight....

If I'm running the VTF at 1.5g .... and the weight is small .6g I believe.... that I would have the weight on main slot 6 and the outside slot 6

I use the Hi-Fi News Analogue Test LP side 2 tracks 1,4,8 to set anti-skate.
On both my SME Ser3 arms, one on a TD-124 and one on a TD-160, and on a TD-160 w/ TP-16 arm.... the AS setting is a lot higher than the standard setting of "same as vtf".... So I think this TP-11 is going to be a problem.

I'm not ready to mess with the AS on the TD-165 right now anyway as it has other issues to deal with now.... and it looks like I may need to find the heavier weight.... and just play with it until I can get a reasonable reproduction of "Track 8".... which, of course, is pretty difficult. ( the TP-16 w/ AT30HE would just barely be ok with the AS as high as it would go)

Using that test record and the side 2 tracks 1,4,8 ..... seems to me to be the best solution to setting AS.... the sound reproduction has been great on the TTs that I'm using for my main listening.

 

[AudioJag]

Thanks Tom...... I almost ignore the whole of side one....... Yes... I need to relax .... tequila works ;-)

 

[AudioJag]

Thanks Tom...... I almost ignore the whole of side one....... Yes... I need to relax .... tequila works ;-)

Tom, tnsilver...... I've just put this Thorens TD-165 with this TP-11 tonearm together using a new Grado green cartridge tracking between 1.5 and 2.0

This tonearm will not track properly any of the antiskate tests on the HFN Analog Test LP. Checked with another cartridge same thing. I cannot get the tonearm with any combination of the anti-skate weights to sound better on the test tracks. When music is played it's not bad, just that I know it's not tracking that well. The cartridge is aligned to "baerwald"....

Is the TP-11 that bad of a tonearm?? I was able to get the TP-16 on the TD-160 working very well.

Thanks for your comment Tom......

 

[tnsilver]

You may have a different problem, such as cart/overhang misalignment, the tonearm wires could be twisted down the pillar exerting extra torque, or the main lateral bearings lock nut on top is too tight. Don't rely on the TP-11 counterweight scale for VTF. Use a digital scale to dial it properly. With 2g of VTF it should be nearly impossible to mistrack unless there's another problem.

 

[AudioJag]

You may have a different problem, such as cart/overhang misalignment, the tonearm wires could be twisted down the pillar exerting extra torque, or the main lateral bearings lock nut on top is too tight. Don't rely on the TP-11 counterweight scale for VTF. Use a digital scale to dial it properly. With 2g of VTF it should be nearly impossible to mistrack unless there's another problem.

Thanks tnsilver: Running it at 2g VTF using digital scale. I've checked cartridge alignment with the mirrored "baerwald" , the SME two hole, and the alignment is correct according to them. Of course the cartridge is slightly askew in the headshell to accommodate these protractors. I've noticed on "balance" tests it seems to be off, heavy to the left side.... using another headshell with a different type cartridge exactly same result.

I had no trouble recently with the TD-160 and TP-16 arm getting the alignment and tracking right on....

Pretty frustrating since the tonearm looks and movement feels perfectly fine.

 

[dr*audio]

Did you check the azimuth alignment of the headshell? Also is the plinth dead level and the suspension properly adjusted so the platter is level?

 

[AudioJag]

It may be an offset in the vertical bearings clearance so the armtube isn't aligned in the gimbals and "leaning".
Sometimes one of the pin bearing can even escape the ball bearing socket.

This is how the pin bearings housing "dorsal fin" relates to the gimbals in a properly aligned TP-11 Mk-I:

Which version TP-11 do you have?

Thanks Tom.... Don't know which version TP-11 this one is. It may have been messed with in the past as the top gimbal cover is missing. Is it possible to put a much larger photo in this thread? How do I determine the version. You know, as much as people complain about the TD115.... the tonearm is far superior to these later iterations.
I picked up an 115 earlier this year and decided to keep it as it runs circles around this 165/tp11.

I'll do a closer look at the gimbals etc... see if I can find anything wrong.... the tp11 seems to be a pretty straight forward normal type tonearm.... but I certainly could be wrong ;-(

 

[AudioJag]

Thanks Tom.... Looks like I have the mk I.... I'll take a close look later today and see if there appears to be any issue there.

 

[AudioJag]

The single piece aluminum armtube TP-11 tonearms are Mark-I. The black 2 piece armtube are IsoTraks (Mk-II and on):
Here's a larger image (click it) I took of a NOS TP-11 Mk-I gimbals / armtube relationship:

The 'dorsal fin' on the bearing housing aligns with the gimbals plastic top center when the tonearm is balanced.

tnsilver, Tom ...... Trouble found !;-) The top bearing had been messed with and needed to be adjusted. I took it off and cleaned the bearing and the spent quite a bit of time getting it adjusted correctly, and to work with the antiskate.

It's not perfect, but it is miles better than what it was previously. Thanks for your help.... you put me on the right path to find the issue.

Ron

 

[AudioJag]

"tnsilver, post: 11664975, member: 117964"]The single piece aluminum armtube TP-11 tonearms are Mark-I. The black 2 piece armtube are IsoTraks (Mk-II and on):


TNSILVER Tom: I am still having trouble with this TP-11 bearings... I think they are bad. Tonearm does not track any where near satisfactory, can't get it to adjust.

??? Can the TP-16 arm be easily substituted for the TP-11 ..... some sodering of wiring of course but concerned about the physical exchange being of take one out put the other in.

Please advise......

Thanks, Ron

 

[AudioJag]

The single piece aluminum armtube TP-11 tonearms are Mark-I. The black 2 piece armtube are IsoTraks (Mk-II and on):
Here's a larger image (click it) I took of a NOS TP-11 Mk-I gimbals / armtube relationship:.

Can I just replace the TP11 with the TP16 ??

 

[tnsilver]

Oh, you mean swap between the two tonearms altogether? yeah sure, no problem with that. It's an immediate drop in. No need to extract the cue mechanism, just release the pillar locking set screws.

 

[AudioJag]

Tom... In other words, I don't know what is wrong with the TP11.... I had it adjusted pretty good then went back to it today and it is completely .... can't use that word here.

 

[AudioJag]

Oh, you mean swap between the two tonearms altogether? yeah sure, no problem with that. It's an immediate drop in. No need to extract the cue mechanism, just release the pillar locking set screws.

Fantastic!..... I would rather buy a TP16 that's available then try to figure this one out...... I put in the TP11 a new Grado Green... and tracking shouldn't be a problem with that. I've tried another headshell and cartridge .... same problem with tracking.

Tom.... I appreciate your help very much. I'm more used to SME tonearms that these guys.

 

[tnsilver]

I bet the vertical bearing pins aren't aligned properly in their ball bearing sockets. It happens. Sometimes they totally escape the sockets. Use the TP-16, get it off your mind, relax, and maybe come back to it some other time. The TP-16 is superior to the TP-11 both in build quality and performance anyway.

 

[AudioJag]

Oh, you mean swap between the two tonearms altogether? yeah sure, no problem with that. It's an immediate drop in. No need to extract the cue mechanism, just release the pillar locking set screws.

Also.... I have one other question ..... the knob at the end of the TP16 arm..... what is it for?? I can't find a reference to it in the manuals.