DQ-10s'?

[piece-it pete]

Hello everyone!

I've been using a pair of the famous Dahlquist DQ-10s' for about a month now, driven 80hz & up with a Marantz 1152dc.

I'd like to thank Gordon for putting me over the hump, and Speakerman for the hookup!

Gordon, you're right, they sound great. I'm going to be changing the crossover point to 40 or 50 hz as soon as I get the freq. modules for the active crossover, I think they can handle more bass than they're getting, and I'll end up with more slam.

My post point - anyone familiar with the Layne Audio "upgrades"? I do like the open sound of these speakers but the top end (piezo) is a little hard on the old ears. Also one of my mids' rubber surround is beginning to crack & will need attention fairly soon.

Any other advice or comments regarding these beauts would be appreciated!!

Thanks again, Gord & Ron!!

Pete

 

[ProAc_Fan]

What color are the caps in your x-over? yellow? Are these a mirror imaged pair? I know about most of the so-called upgrades performed on the x-over so ask away. Also when it comes to the piezo, I always left mine disconnected because I disliked it anyways.

Mike

 

[ProAc_Fan]

Yikes I just reread your post. You're driving these with 76 watts per channel? Before I upgraded any x-over components I'd see how they sound with as much power ( preferably at least 200 watts) you can find/afford. That power hungry x-over makes these very inefficient and I've seen DQ-10's powered with as much as 1200 watts each. I've personally pegged the meters on a 200 watt per channel Phase Linear 400B.

Mike

 

[piece-it pete]

The scoop:

Wow fast reply Mike!

Yellow caps. Mirror imaged. I think 12ga monster "internal" wiring. No fuses. The l-pad is connected but I can't hear a difference in settings. I believe they're all original drivers, with re-foamed woofers, one foamed on the outside of the cardboard ring, one on the inside, I was told for voicecoil alignment.

Yep I know about the power thing (my 1st impression of these when I hooked them up was "black hole of wattage") but in my little room, with the bottom going to subs, and the state of my budget.....

That said the Marantz does a great job with clarity & the like right until it runs out of steam.

I've heard the phase linear sounds really good with these, maybe sometime down the road I'll end up with a better amp (sometime?? lol of course).

Pete

 

[ProAc_Fan]

My guess is whoever refoamed on the outside of the masonite ring did so because its easier not for any voicecoil alignment reasons.( It sounds good though). The original foam is on the underside of that ring on those Advent woofers. I know about Layne Audio and also all about Regnar who specialize in Dahlquists. If you can glean the knowledge and parts elsewhere you'll be much richer intellectually and financially. The cost of a Regnar rebuild is a joke IMHO.

Mike

 

[piece-it pete]

You know, that's what I figured about the refoam.

I heard about the Regnar cost thing somewhere. Do you think Layne is better?

How long have you owned yours? And, not to be a pest, but what have you done to them - any tweaks?

Pete

 

[ProAc_Fan]

Hmm questions questions

I had mine for about 1 yr before I moved on to something else. It's just my nature.

Only mods were to remove that L-pad, lose the piezo, replaced the Philips mid driver with a SEAS one. I had the woofers refoamed as well.

If you have the room and the juice, DQ-10's are a great speaker for all but the most bass heavy music.

Let's see a pic of yours Pete.

Oh I don't know much about Layne's prices but Regnar's prices and customer service are a joke.

Mike

 

[Billfort]

an alternate view...

I have a pair of the later version DQ-10’s, mirror imaged, “yellow cap” crossovers, all stock accept the piezo is disconnected. I used these for years until I got into low power SET but still have them packed away for that someday third, fourth, system.

I guess I’ll take the “alternative” view on the power issue as I’m a tube guy and as much as I agree that these things like and eat SS watts in arc welder quantities, I was very happy using a 75w push-pull tube amp on them (Conrad-Johnson MV75-A1). You couldn’t head bang and the weak bass of the DQ’s was even lighter and less controlled with tubes but they sounded amazingly holographic, open and downright musical. One issue I did have with them was the need to keep them out in the room and away from walls to sound their best and not all rooms (certainly not my current one) let you get away with this.

I’m not a subwoofer guy but I imagine I would like a SS powered woofer pair below maybe 80Hz and tube driven DQ’s above with a passive line level high-pass and active low-pass crossover. I guess I just described the system Dahlquist sold (LP1 crossover) but personally, I’d use tubes on the DQ’s – probably crazy but I liked the combination.

 

[the fatboy]

DQ-10 tweaks

I restuffed my woofer enclosure with "acousta-stuff'" from parts express and gained surprising improvement in the bass. A great cheap tweak. Removing the piezio out of the circuitry and reversing the phase to the dome tweeter smooths out the top end greatly. These are all simple and cheap some free. Before changing crossover points I would rebuild the crossover with Solen caps and replace the bass inductors with Alpha-Core or other foil inductors.
The crossover circuitry was IMHO the greatest part of Jon Dahlquist's work, part of what makes this speaker still highly rated 30 years later.
I have the crossover schematic and will email a copy if wanted just PM me
These are speakers that always want more power, I have mine on a PL 400 and more would be nice ,bi-amping would be nice.
John

 

[GordonW]

Couple of things:

First off, I've listened to DQ10s with a LOT of different amps, of various sizes. And NONE of them had the "symbiotic relationship" that the Marantz 1152DC had. Be careful, don't let that amp get away, in the pursuit of something 'bigger and better'. Yes, it's good to try other amps, but man... I know I'd probably regret losing that combo, should I have the opportunity to own both at the same time!!

Next, about the 76w/ch thing... well, the 1152DC always seemed VERY STRONG for its rating. In low-impedence situations (which the DQ10 seems to be), I'd bet it's closer to 120w/ch, IRL. That, combined with the fact that he's using an ACTIVE crossover (ie, the 1152's amp section won't have to handle low bass), will allow that amp/speaker combo to go a much longer way, in the SPL/dynamic impact department than it might first seem.

Also, in regards to the piezo tweeter: I've seen some people place resistors and/or small caps (like, say a 1 or 1.5 microfarad poly cap) in series with the piezo... it may be enough to take the "edge" off of it. IMHO, it's not all bad... it does make the speaker more "open" to have it hooked up. Just that it can get a little over-bearing sometimes.

With respect to the L-pads... Pete, have you tinkered with the L-pad setting in the back, to see if it might sound better with the L-pad turned down just a smidgen from where it is now? On that subject- removing/bypassing the L-pad is one of those things that always scares me with these old speakers, as I NEVER wind up liking the sound of ANY of them with the L-pads turned all-the-way up... which is EXACTLY what it'll be like, if you bypass it. I've seen MORE AR-2s, AR3s, DQ10s, EPI M100s and the like, RUINED sonically, by bypassing the L-pads!! The balance of sound is NEVER right, without the pad in circuit, IME.

Lastly, for subs: if you can, by any means, latch onto the DQ1 subwoofers, they are the shiznits for that speaker/amp combo, no questions about it. Those subs, run off of at least 150w/ch, will take care of ANY bass deficiencies the DQ10 has! If you can't get DQ1 subs, the next-best thing I know of, is the Boston Acoustics PV500 or PV700... they're relatively "fast" sounding, like the DQ-1, and they're a BARGAIN, IMHO. In any case, I think you're on the right track with a 40-50 Hz crossover point... that's where the DQ-LP active crossover that Dahlquist sold for these when used with the DQ-1, did it's work, IIRC...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[GordonW]

Bill, I can COMPLETELY believe the CJ amp worked well with the DQ10s. Most of the vintage CJ gear, IME, has a very slight "forward" character to the midrange, similar to the midrange tonal balance of the Marantz 1152DC that Pete has. I think the DQ10s respond very well, to having the midrange "punched up" just a tiny bit, at just the right place...

 

[Tour2ma]

I've got Regnar'd 10's.... ProAc, I might be insulted, if not for the fact that the previous owner footed that bill...

After trying a couple amps, I married mine to a B&K ST-1400. Seemed to like the B&K, even though it's a relatively low powered amp (nice current spec though).

 

[piece-it pete]

Well it looks like I'll have no shortage of info on these old timers !

Mike, The next time I've got a roll of film ready for eBay I'll have pics to post. I'm still in the stone age camera-wise!

Bill, thanks for the alternate view!! I'd love to try tubes, particularly since I recently had my 1st tube amp, a fisher A-30 monoblock - wow! It was GREAT! The sweetest amp I've ever heard. But I only had one . And I'm saving for a house, heck just buying these affordable speakers caused a strain on the home front!!!

John, you've got a PM! I get happy when I hear about free tweaks. I've got some good filler, I'll do that this weekend. I can try the other suggestions, if they don't do it for me I can always change it back. Where do you get the crossover parts?

Gordon (the man!!), reading my original post I think I didn't really make it clear that my system sounds better than it ever did, by a long shot. I understand what you mean about the Marantz & power ratings, its' got *kahunas*, that go beyond ratings. I'm looking forward to some refreshening work curtesy of echowars later this year. Also, I read a post somewhere that a tech measured an easy 100 wpc using a square wave? and told the owner, don't ever sell this. However, I'm turning my pre to almost 12 o'clock now, sometimes past, so these monsters are giving it a workout!! I'll never get rid of it, but I'm sure some sexy young thing will catch my eye sometime (though it'd be hard pressed to beat the looks!!).
I'm going to spend some time playing with the l-pad. I can't tell a difference all the way down or up immediately but maybe if I give it some quality time I'll hear it in my ref. cds. Don't worry, I'm not going to run those screamers full out!
As far as subs go, due to budget constraints I'll be keeping my old Hsus' into the forseeable future. They're pretty good (I love them). I'll keep your suggestions "on file" for down the road, though. I just received my crossover bundles from Marchand today (taking the shine off - almost 3 week lead ) and I'll be playing with them tonight. I'm thinking "slam" & dynamics will be MUCH improved.

Tour2ma, I'm intruiged. Are you talking about the "new" DQ-10s'? Or has Regnar rebuilt yours? I'd sure be interested in trying something like the B&K but budget.... sigh.....

Hey thanks everyone. If it wasn't for the magic of the web & the time of strangers I'd still be wondering why my sony HT doesn't sound good : !

Pete

 

[tentoze]

For my uneducated ears, my stock mirror-imaged DQ-10's (with the piezo intact, I might add) sound absolutely as good as I want music to sound- fed by my baby, Denon POA-2200, which does NOT run out of steam regardless of anything I've ever driven with it. If I ever get around to merging the FL and Vegas systems, I am anxious to hear what the sweet-sounding little BEZ tube pre will add to the DQ-10/POA-2200 combo. I'm assembling a couple of the Dahlquist column stands I bagged on ebay a few months ago (a little re-glueing necessary), and looking forward to that improvement as well. Picked up another set of pristine DQ-10's on ebay last year that were near my sons- they picked them up, and the ex liked them so much, she traded me back the DQ-20's I lost through divorce. Karma is a wonderful thing.

 

[ProAc_Fan]

Originally posted by Tour2ma
I've got Regnar'd 10's.... ProAc, I might be insulted, if not for the fact that the previous owner footed that bill...

After trying a couple amps, I married mine to a B&K ST-1400. Seemed to like the B&K, even though it's a relatively low powered amp (nice current spec though).

I used a B&K St-1400 to drive my ProAc supertablettes back about 15 yrs ago. IIRC that amp is 140watts per so its not exactly a lightweight in the power department. I still can't believe anything made in Lackawana ( a suburb of Buffalo) can sound as good as B&K does. :

Mike

 

[Tour2ma]

But Lacawana does roll off the tongue, doesn't it? I've been a B&K fan since I bought an AVP-2000 a decade or so ago...

I should have said relative to the other amps I paired up, e.g., M-4.0t, Sunfire. The 1400 is a middle weight I guess.

pi-p,
Yes, they're older one that Regnar mod'd for the previous owner... mirrored them, x-overs, etc.

You can find the 1400's on ebay for $200, if you don't demand mint. Paid $202.50 for mine with very minor blems Very nice for that price.

 

[ProAc_Fan]

For $200 that B&K is a great deal.

Mike