Drum Works

Bill bruford hated solos, but I think that some of the anti-solo rhetoric came about when punk made itself present.

Depending on who is doing the soloing, It can be quite good. Its kind of like intelectual snobism sometimes just to dismiss the solo as musical masturbation....if that was the case, half of the Baroque music is nothing more than that.

I see the solo's (if well played) as a way to demonstrate what the player and instrument can do...dont think of who is playing it, but think of what is being played..most rockers cant solo worth spit because they totally abandon the song's context and just trip into ego land....If you listened to any of Steve Howe's guitar solo moments, you will notice that he keeps the melodic skeleton and tempo of the song,,,and its quite impressive to be able to do that..(look at Yours Is No Disgrace in Yessongs as an example)...The musician that is soloing has to keep his ego in check and serve the music,,,then solos can be quite exciting to listen to.
 
Originally posted by D-Zyne
Yes drums have pitch, but they do not play discernible notes, not to my ear anyway
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Drummer? NO. But I am an audio enthusiast and your original comment about drums having no discernible pitch is what caught my attention. At first I was going to make a comment to the effect of your system must be pretty poor quality if you can't discern drum pitches. But then, I could not come up with ANY reasonable mechanism in a music playback system that would render drum pitch undiscernible. Therefore, I assumed the limitation would probably fall in the listener's arena. Thus, that is why I asked about this whole "no discernible pitch" thought. I don't think anyone ever made any comments that you are not entitled to your own opinions, or that your opinions are incorrect. No one ever asked about the role of drummers in a rock band. And I don't think the difference between rhythm and percussion was ever in question. Hence, I just ignored these smoke screens and stayed with the previous comment of pitchless drums.

Now you say that drums do have pitch, just not discernible notes. I really don't know what that implies, so I'd be happy to just leave it at that.

Just to let you know from where I am coming from, I too do not care for drum solos on a huge majority of rock albums. I really like live recordings, but it always seemed (at least in the past) that a live album would always have the last song on side 2 being some extended song where the solos are highlighted. These solos would often dillute the repeat playback value of an album (or at least the last song) in my listening experience.
 
I've been trying to lay low on this thread, but as a performing drummer for many many years now I have to ask D-Zyne...

"What instrument is it that you play and who are these world class drummers you've played with?"

Not trying to be a smart-ass here... I'm just curious.

mOOn

BTW... I can't say that I've ever played a Gminor chord on a drum (not on purpose anyway), but since drums were the first known instrument to mankind I don't think you have much ground to stand on to say it's "not a solo instrument."

Even though I'm not big on drum solos, there is still much to be said about the sound & rhythm of a drum being played by itself.

That's my story & I'm STICKING to it. (no pun intended) ;)
 
As someone who is only the audience when it comes to music I don't play anything, and I imagine all of this has to do with the kind of drums used in rock groups and such, but how about the drums played in India (tabla?)? We had a sort of music fest here at work one lunchhour and man could he ever play them.

Guess what I'm sayings is there are drums and there are drums.

Rob
 
If I could pick percussion in general, I'd have to include the Blue Man Group. Their DVD-A simply rocks the house on it's foundation. The recent Complex Live tour DVD is more musical with an attempt to reach the pop crowd, but It also is drum/percussion heavy.

Plus now you can see the video portion of the show.

If you feel they do not qualify, could I start a PVC drain pipe category?

:rolleyes:
 
Fer chrissake-

This is my last post on this subject...reply if you must but I am unsubscribing cause I'm really getting annoyed.

Everyone- I EXPRESSED AN OPINION! If that's not what this forum is all about them I will gladly avoid it.

I am not here to make enemies and insult people. I accept other peoples opinions and ideas and expect no less of them towards mine. Drummers are musicians and there are many damn fine ones out there. I am a trained classical guitarist who has also been playing bass for years. And while I admit I do not know exactly what the dictionary definition of "world class" is, I have played with (not in any true "professional" scenario however) John Macaluso and Delmar Brown, both of whom have toured the 'world' for years. Macaluso is probably the finest drummer I have ever heard and I have the utmost respect for him as a musician. He is also a fine percussionist (BECAUSE THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT). I have also played with Greg Diamond (don't expect you to know the name), who toured with Mickey Hart. All of us trained, schooled musicians.

Music to me is comprised of BOTH pitch and rhythm. As I have already stated, modern day drum kits alone cannot put a melody in my head. By the same token, most Gregorian Chant vocal music (what I consider the 'first' instrument, BTW) is essentially melody without rhythm so I don't listen to a whole lot of that either. I happen to like both in my music.

Guys- listen to whatever makes you happy
 
Originally posted by D-Zyne
As I have already stated, modern day drum kits alone cannot put a melody in my head.
Click to expand...
True. Although have you listened to Art Blakey's Orgy in Rhythm? Or much Max Roach. They can get surprisingly close with traps.
In any case, the problem is that drums don't have *variable* pitch.
Then again, some do. African *talking drums* have variable pitch and are, by all accounts, very good at imitating tonal languages such as Wolof.
Variable pitch drums are also used in Japan, most notably (IMMHO) in the music of the Noh theater.
This is an area I'm sure Mickey Hart knows all about.
 
Fer chrissake yourself D-Zyne... I just asked a question & stated my opinion as you did.

Maybe you should go play some classical guitar & mellow out if you're getting so annoyed. :rolleyes:

mOOn
 
I've re-read this whole thread.
WHAT the effing hell in it would get anyone worked up?
I've got to agree 30 seconds is about right for a drum solo, but will add drumming sure adds a ton to the overall, er, impact of a band's music.
Mind, MY opinion means more than YOUR opinion ;) :cool: :p:
 
Funny stuff... interesting thread.

Couple more came to mind...

Michael Shrieve - Santana - "Soul Sacrifice" (Woodstock)
From what I remember the group's wunderkind teen drummer had a little trouble getting into the country. He was 16 or so at the time.

Ginger Baker - Blind Faith - "Do What You Like"
Think it was the first double bass roll I'd heard...

Carl Palmer - EL&P - "Tank"
My favorite (complete with flanging) of many from the once billed "World's Fastest Drummer" who only wanted to be known as a percusionist...
 
If you tap your feet, snap your fingers, clap your hands to music you are a percussionist. 30 years ago this summer I loved going to Havard Yard for the music and the smoke. A gas generator would power a rock band which usually was fun, but afterwards all kinds of drums, gourds, bottles and sticks would appear and the real fun started. Lots of Kongas, maybe bongos, you never knew what would show up attached to a person. Once started it never stopped although people would join and drop out. Singing, dancing, stamping, thumping of chests, what ever. I never did stay long enough to see a session die out because it took too much energy just to be there. You had to move!!!
I know this is a bit OT but this was percussion that lasted for hours, no guitars, pianos just people banging on something including the Earth.

Uhh, Lenny White on Romantic Warrior is one of my faves.
 
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