Dual 1229 arm movement

[Idler50]

I'm struggling to get this turntable to work properly. Auto functions aside, I'm having issues with simple operation. When I move the tonearm manually it seems like the bottom of plate 201 (#2 in my photo) is engaging the positioning arm 255 (#3 in my photo) and that's restricting movement. The motor turns on for a second and then it disengages the positioning arm and the motor snaps off. If I use the arm lift lever I can move the tonearm freely and the motor comes on and stays on until I return it to rest. Is there an adjustment here that I'm missing? Secondly, the tonearm just seems to be too low in general and doesn't really want to elevate the cart above the record. I'd love to resolve this on my own but if the repair is too complicated I may just send it off and get it done right by someone that knows what they're doing. Anyone see anything I'm missing or out of alignment?

 

[tnsilver]

Not complicated, just too fine and capricious. Seth (@NoTransistors) is in Brooklyn. This is probably a walk in the park for him. You're too close to risk it on your own. He's one of the best out there. PM him.

 

[NoTransistors]

Very kind of you, Tnsilver.
Idler50's turntable, as do many others' , suffers from an illness commonly referred to as 'Tinkerer-NotaClueitis. It can be reversed with vitamins B and D, as well as enormous quantities of cod liver oil.

I can help.

 

[Idler50]

Saying "not a clue itis" essentially insulting potential customers isn't really a good business model. But thanks.

 

[tnsilver]

Saying "not a clue itis" essentially insulting potential customers i

I'm sure it's more of a sense of humor (yeah, older, Brooklyn'ish and doesn't always gel well anywhere else) than any intent on insult, but like a good joke, there's always a seed of truth in it. You really have no clue with the 1229 until you've tinkered with a few, possibly ruined some, fixed others. It's one of those misplaced washer flap of wings causes a typhoon in the tonearm sort of thing. It's a real cracker. You do need a good tech.

 

[NoTransistors]

Thanks, Tom.
When a turntable has symptoms that really should not occur together, this usually means that something was bent by one who does not know. I ruined my own Dual 1229Q decades ago by not understanding the mechanism.

 

[stereofisher]

Thanks, Tom.
When a turntable has symptoms that really should not occur together, this usually means that something was bent by one who does not know. I ruined my own Dual 1229Q decades ago by not understanding the mechanism.

In all due respect. Duals are complex. I ruined a 1218 that was bad to start with. Learned how they work. Took lots of practice. It’s not easy. Still won’t regressed cues. Old large hands with arthritis. And tone arms. Seth the man. With the symptoms you are discriminating it can be hard to find the cause or causes. I have an early 1219. Need it like a hole in my head. Bringing my total to 4. Went through it. Auto return works but the arm does fully return to the post. New stuerpimple. New grease. Cleaned motor. The usual things I do to overhaul a 1200 series Dual. Parts look good underneath. Worked on these for years.this one has me stumped. Plays well. May be hidden damage in the arm. Seth May get this one. Need to find time to take a ride to Brooklyn one of these days. My point, have Seth look at your table. Once gone over a Dual is a wonderful machine. The one in my avatar has five years on it. Only issue is the auto single selector at the base of the arm is frozen. Stuck in single play. Since thats the only way I use it it’s not a big deal. Won’t touch that issue. If I really want that fixed, Seth will get it. My other working 1219s don’t have the issue. Good luck if you try yourself.

Eric

 

[Idler50]

Thank you for your suggestions. I'm not ready to give up yet. I've managed to get my other turntables working including a 1219 that was entirely inoperable when I got it. If I mess it up - so be it. It happens. I learn in the process. I'd hoped someone with experience with these might point me in a direction I hadn't tried yet. I'll continue with my trial and error. If it gets beyond repair I'll toss it. I paid little enough it won't hurt too much.

 

[Solist]

One way to solve the problem (or make it even worse) would be to completely disassemble the whole mechanism and then put it back together. You should have an exploded view in the service manual which you can use to put everything back together.

That and a little bit of logic should be enough to get it up and running.

And if you still have the 1219, just compare the two. As far as I can tell they use the same mechanism.

 

[Idler50]

That's a great suggestion. Thank you. I do have my 1219 still. It's being used currently but only because one of my daily driver pioneers was getting a little love in the sick bay. I'll swap it out with something else and use it to compare the 1229. I'd been considering going down the path of disassembly but had hesitated. With the 1219 (and a 1212 I have) to compare it to, putting it back together might be less worrisome. I have the service manual downloaded for the 1219 and 1229. I use 1229 generically as mine is a Q model. I believe the q designated quad sound but mechanically I think they're very similar.

 

[illinoisteve]

There are rather complex interrelationships between spring tensions and other forces and leverages in those 1200-series Duals. I remember that at one point, several months after I had successfully refurbed my 1229, it developed a problem. I eventually relieved the problem after some AK-pal-guided tinkering. As near as I could tell, one pivot point in the linkage (at a place some distance from where I would have expected the problem to be!) was binding slightly, probably from some old lube I had not sufficiently removed.

In notransistors/Seth's defense, an owner prior to the original poster might have bent something. We often don't know a lot about the prior care some of our old Dual TTs have had. And as others have mentioned, some of us have broken something in our Dual learning years (which many of us would admit to still being in the middle of).

 

[Idler50]

Understood. I know nothing about the previous owner. I bought this one as part of lot of about a dozen turntables. Whoever owned them abandoned them in an apartment and the landlord was just cleaning out the apartment and didn't want to fool with them. They all needed a little bit or lot of work. I've sold a couple, given a couple to friends and would like to keep this one for myself and maybe pass on my 1219 when this one is done. I've recouped any money invested so far with the two I sold and I have plenty of operating turntables that I can afford to take my time playing with this one until it's happier. Hopefully when I'm done I'll understand their operation a little better than I do now.

Still, a crappy comment he made to imply anyone that wants to tinker with their turntable is a moron and should pay him to fix it. It won't be his to fix if I need the help.

 

[illinoisteve]

Actually, Seth has given a LOT of free Dual repair advice in these forum threads. If you deeply explore the archived posts about Duals, you'll recognize that before long. I suspect that he sees the kind of problem you are having as likely to be caused by one or another kind of damage, based on his long experience as a Dual technician, a kind of thing that might take some ferreting out to identify, though something he knows he would be able to find and fix. As there might be more than one possible cause, the ferreting and fixing process might not be nearly as easy to explain and advise about in the forum as a lot of the things he has helped people with before, consequently it might be easier for him to fix it than to explain about it. That, of course, doesn't mean that your own careful, patient examination won't figure it out, even if some of us wouldn't figure it out and might need to send or take the machine to a pro like Seth...who gets stellar reviews, by the way, from people who've relied on his services, according to AKers who have been his customers. I'm not one of them, but I have read what they had to say.

 

[Idler50]

Thank you. Much more satisfying to repair on my own if possible. The tinkering and resolution of the issues is half the fun. When this one is done I'll just start one something else.

 

[illinoisteve]

Thank you. Much more satisfying to repair on my own if possible. The tinkering and resolution of the issues is half the fun. When this one is done I'll just start one something else.

Exactly, you don't just own a Dual you have refurbished yourself. You have a relationship with it...kinda like a marriage. You and the turntable have weathered several rough spots, and you know one another's limitations.