Dual 1229: pitch control, etc...

[ggeorge]

New to me today. When I saw it Wednesday, it had a mint Dual CK 20 plinth and dust cover, today, when I went back to make a higher offer for it (to keep it from getting destroyed in shipping) it had a big ding on the top back edge and a chipped back corner... Those greedy "thrift store" idiots should have just taken my offer then instead of thinking they were gonna get the big bucks on ebay--burns me up.

I noticed the speed is correct only when the pitch control is dialed down all the way to the end of the minus. I know it's a mechanical adjustment that moves the idler wheel up and down the motor spindle, but how do I adjust it, or do I need a new wheel? The other thing is the auto play--it worKs in single play, but after setting it up for multi-play the arm won't move over and it won't return. Any tips?

Thanks!

 

[bobaloniny]

Too bad about the damage.
To adjust the pitch control, first you center the control knb, then you will find a little set screw in the side of the stepped pulley, loosen it and slide it up or down to adjust. In theory you should be aiming for center of the step, but if the deck hasnt been serviced (degunked and relubed) then you may end up having to overshoot center to compensate.
Unless the idler is bent, then its all about the condition of the rubber tire itself. It should be rubbery and not hard.If thats an issue you can get it re tired at Terrysrubberrollers.com. You will want to lightly dress the edge of the tire with some200 grit or an emory board, and clean up the rim on the platter, making sure its shiny clean.
Are you sure that when adjusting to multi, you are able to set the lever all the way? If it doesnt, then it would bind. Beyond that, I know theres an issue with a rubber o ring or some such going bad on the shaft thats raising the arm up and down. Im a little hazy on that, as Ive never run into that problem.Plenty have though and hopefully will chime in on that issue.
Meanwhile, if the deck hasnt been serviced, you would want to I think, nothing is going to be quite right for long if you don't.
Try this...http://akdatabase.com/AKview/displayimage.php?album=103&pos=0

 

[ggeorge]

Ok. Thanks.

I guess I find it strange that the alignment between the idler and motor pulley is so off. I doubt the pulley was ever moved since new, and the tire would have to be bigger than when initially set up for it to run faster at the same position--which also seems unlikely. The other thing could be that the tire should ride up on its bearing when engaged--could it need to be oiled? I put a drop of sewing machine oil on it already but didn't notice a change. Could a washer to raise it on the bearing possibly do it?

As for the auto, I fooled with the "steuerpimpel" rubber thing and got it to work by sliding it essential half way off, but then it just gets pushed back. Can I put a dab of something on the base of it to get more contact, or just clean it?

Another thing now: in multi-play, the tonearm only goes to the end of the last track and gets bound up. Where do I look to fix that?

 

[JHS2RT]

I think you need to visit FIXMYDUAL.COM and talk to Bill.
You have some serious issues and if not dealt with in a correct manner could make your turntable a door stop.

I talked to Bill about my 1229 doing the same as yours and he listed several reasons why the arm would bind.
So guess what ---My 1229 is going to Bill right after the Christmas mailing rush.

 

[JHS2RT]

BTW--Regarding the pulley --yes the set screw is on the side but there is a pulley height set screw down the middle of the pulley which raises and lowers the pulley on the motor shaft. Ideal adjustment is when the idler wheel is centered on the pulley steps.

 

[ggeorge]

BTW--Regarding the pulley --yes the set screw is on the side but there is a pulley height set screw down the middle of the pulley which raises and lowers the pulley on the motor shaft. Ideal adjustment is when the idler wheel is centered on the pulley steps.

Thanks. I tried to make the adjustment using that screw down the center of the pulley, but it didn't seem to do anything that I could tell. Also, the set screw on the side is a little tricky to get at without a driver with a long shaft, it seems.

The binding: my guess is the changer function wasn't used much, could it just be that there is some grease that needs loosening up or maybe there are wires in the way?

The auto arm swing thing seems just like the "pimpel" just needs its contact surface improved either by cleaning or lowering it slightly on the shaft. Maybe a dab of wax or something?

 

[ggeorge]

Ok. Well, it seems I've worked out the changer issues, both getting the arm to swing to the lead-in and to return... Just had to leave a mm or two between the steuerpimpel and bottoming it out on its shaft. The arm also tracks freely through the run-out groove, not sure what I did there...

I can't seem to loosen the set screw on the motor pulley, though, and I don't want to risk stripping it. The service manual says to loosen the set screw and raise and lower the pulley using the adjustment screw (the one running vertically through the middle of it). So, just need to fix that and glue or bond the chipped corner of the dustcover (dammit! those boneheads....), and it's good to go!


The cartridge on it:

Stanton 600E - the specs at the VE database states 1.5-3g tracking... the 600EE has .75-1.5g... can anyone verify this? I had it set initially at 1.5 and now at 2.5, what should I be listening for to determine what my ideal tracking force should be?

 

[quadtech]

Try applying a little heat to the pulley - a soldering iron would be perfect for
the job.

 

[ssmith3046]

Bill at fixmydual.com is the man when it comes to Duals IMO.

 

[jancumps]

...the tire would have to be bigger than when initially set up for it to run faster at the same position...

Ggeorge, that isn't the case. The idler transmits the rotation of the pulley to the rim. Its size doesn't affect the speed.

 

[gridleakrick]

George,
To get at that pulley set screw, remove the motor. It's not really difficult then you can use the correct size screwdriver at the correct angle.
Rick

 

[bobaloniny]

As I mentioned before( ok, kind of implied), you would really want to relube some things before worrying about the stepped pulley. Platter bearing, split the motor and clean and lube, idler whatever affects the platter spin, and then see where you end up with speed. You would of course take the opportunity to break free that set screw while the motor was out.
Also bear in mind, it takes about 10 min of running before things settle into a constant speed.

 

[ggeorge]

Thanks, everybody. I was thinking about removing the motor but wanted to get some reassurance that I wouldn't be risking problems doing it that way. I wonder if it isn't just an issue with the tire itself, perhaps someone took it off during a service and forgot to replace a washer putting it back together? I know it's far fetched...

If I were to attempt to relube the motor, what oil does it take?

 

[bobaloniny]

Just to get a definitive answer, I used the search function at the top of the page (search AK with Google) and typed in "Oil 1229 Motor".
This thread was the 2nd hit, and Post 2 gives the definitive answer and a full insiders breakdown of dis assembly and re assembly of a 1229 motor. All this posted by Seth (NoTransistors) who is a top shelf Dual technician. If he says it is, it is.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212113
As far as washer/no washer..At VinylEngine.com there is a service manual with exploded view/parts list. You need to register with them for free to access the manual (found in the Library there).

 

[JohnMac]

Ggeorge, that isn't the case. The idler transmits the rotation of the pulley to the rim. Its size doesn't affect the speed.

Correct. There was thread (I think I started it) concerning this a while back and after much discussion of different possible variables it was determined that the idler tire size does not affect the platter speed.

John

 

[ggeorge]

Still haven't been able to resolve the speed issue. Given that there is a slight speed-up in the rotation, I think I may need a new idler tire (perhaps it could be sanded?). Maybe that would correct the overall speed, too. Just guessing...

Another thing I noticed is that it won't cue 7" records; it just makes it to halfway between the 10" drop point and the 7". Kind of annoying, especially since I was considering getting the large hole (45) changer spindle. If anyone has a good off-the-cuff guess, I'd like to hear it. Grease? None of the rest of the switches and gears seemed to have any problem...

Last thing, the paper strobe disc under the platter detached itself again. I had used just a very light brush of glue leftover from a speaker foam repair kit. Anyone have any better suggestions for adhesive that's not overkill, something close to what would have been factory?

 

[bobaloniny]

Touch a fine emery board to the edge as its being spun by the motor. Just don't stay there for more than a couple of seconds. I assume you have polished the drive surface on the platter. You are right in that you need good rubber and good traction to the platter for proper speed.
As far as needle drop for a 7". It drops correctly for a 12" lp?
Only thing I may wonder is if the steurpimpel is losing its grip against the plate it contacts .The pimpel should be hanging down off of its mounting pin by 1mm iirc. The plate it contacts should be clean and dry.
Adhesive for holding the strobe paper on.. Id clean the underside of the platter with alcohol, then use rubber cement I think, though iirc, I used Aleens Tacky Glue on mine.

 

[ggeorge]

It does drop correctly for 12" and 10", but... I put a little wad of cotton in the pimpel to give it the clearance it needed to work the arm at all. I was able to get it to work for awhile and then it seemed like it would slide back up on the mounting shaft--hence the cotton. Seems I remember I was only having problems when, or after, using the changer. Maybe I just need to find the right height...

I got impatient and used the speaker glue again. I'll use contact cement if it happens again, thanks!

I'll try the emery board when I take it over to a friend's house--maybe tomorrow--he has experience working with idlers and may have some other insights. Thanks again!