Dual turntables? Or other nice 70's turntables that can still be found for reasonable prices?

Taketheflame

Super Member
Hey all,

So - as much as I like my ProJect TT (the Carbon), I know that at some point (not immediately, but I like doing my homework on this stuff!), I will more than likely want to add a 2nd turntable/upgrade to my rig .

In addition to having a better performing table (as good as the Carbon sounds for it's specs/price point), it'd also be nice to have a TT where I can adjust the speed/pitch with controls on top, as opposed to having to lift the platter and manually switch belts around. Vintage aesthetics are also a nice bonus/would pair nicely w/my other components.

I've been curious about Dual turntables - I've heard they're really great for what you can buy them for, but that they can be a bit more of a PITA to work on than other TTs, and that this is especially the case on models w/automatic features (which I don't care about - I'd rather stay fully manual, or semi-auto at most tbh). How much truth is there to this?

If not a Dual, what are some nice "sleeper" models that are high on the food chain from other brands? (I've heard Pioneer, Marantz, and Sony made some nice units in 70's...but I'm open to any brands). Another option I considered was the good ol' Technics SL-1200, but again, I'm curious about options - well, for anything that doesn't run well into the thousands for a nice example :p.

Again, fully manual is kind of what I'd prefer to keep maintenance easier (but auto-return is OK), and it doesn't matter if it's belt drive or direct drive to me - quality is what counts!

Thanks!
 
Budget?

How about Kenwood or Thorens?

All of these were purchased and shipped through eBay, with their comprehensive buyer protection policy had there been any issues it would have covered me completely. All were purchased under $400 including shipping, most less than $350. The Technics as little as 8 months ago, built like a tank but I prefer the Kennys and Thorens.

Starting with my favorite to least.

Kenwood KD770D, semi auto deck
8419efc8a87aaeba60bb073c6336e7fe.jpg

Kenwood KD500/Grace G707 arm, fully manual deck
kenwood kd500 top.JPG

Thorens TD166MKII, fully manual deck
maxresdefault (6).jpg

Mitsubishi DP EC8, fully auto deck
DSC02014.JPG

Technics SL1200MKII, fully manual deck
sl1200.jpg
 
/\ - Those are all beauties :)

I was under the impression that it takes around $600 to score an SL-1200 (in my area at least), but yeah, what you found all those for is right within what would be my ideal budget range ($400-$600).

I initially had some interest in an LP12, but I've seen them w/asking prices of $2-3k or so, and I wouldn't be able to swing that (nor am I convinced one must drop that much for a great TT).

Any chance you can share what you prefered about the other TTs over the 1200?
 
There are some sleepers in the JVC and Hitachi direct drive tables, and the brand does not get a premium and is often blown off. If you see one I would check out the model number and get some info. I have had a couple through my hands that were very decent and reliable.
 
Some were purchased a while back, but I recently posted a Kenwood KD500 with an AudioTechnica arm on another thread here. The table was in great shape with a rare original working cover, the hinges are usually toast, price $450.

Not long ago I located a KD770D on eBay for a member here interested in mine, price $345, his need of a new vehicle precluded the purchase.

If patient and willing to have a table shipped good deals can still be found.

This is the table.
Screenshot_20181006-221917.png
Screenshot_20181006-221826.png
Screenshot_20181006-221802.png
 
"Any chance you can share whatyou prefered about the other TTs over the 1200?"

The Kennys and Thorens just sound better, I also think they look better. The Mitsubishi because it's just so cool with the servo controlled arm and its rarity, I also like it's looks better. As for SQ, the Technics and Mitsubishi are on par with each other, but the Technics would be the easier to live with with its adjustable VTA and lower complexity if future repairs are needed.
 
There's a Kenwood KD550 on ebay with 4hrs left in the auction, same table as the 500 except it included an arm supplied by Kenwood. The 500 was sold sans arm leaving the buyer to supply their own, and why you see these with different boutique arms.

If the bidding doesn't get crazy in the last minutes this could be a great buy. I usually prefer the "buy it now" sales so I don't get all crazy and bid more than I originally intended lol.

Screenshot_20181021-160807.png
 
Well the sale has ended, someone got a good deal. People always ask where I find these tables for the prices I mention, answer "eBay". The working dust cover makes this an extra sweet deal, anyone with one of these tables understands they're unobtanium if you need one. There are workarounds but this cover was designed to allow closer placement to the wall behind, I know I like mine.

Screenshot_20181021-210728.png
 
/\ - Yes, looks like someone got a nice TT there!

Not in a rush/wasn't able to justify a TT purchase so soon atm, but thanks for looking out anyway, Grenadeslio.

So far, nobody has even mentioned the Duals - does that mean I'm better off with the aforementioned alternatives like the Kenny or Thorens stuff?
 
Duals are nice. provided you buy one of their better models. And it's fully serviced, many Duals tend to need work, and the mechanisms are like all things German, on the complex side. They after all are automatic, and often even record changers. More under the hood with a Dual. Thorens is a simpler machine, manual as a rule. Suspensions are often the most involved getting ideal, but a Thorens uses a lot less moving parts than a Dual.
 
I’m always surprised that the Technics SL-1300, SL-1350, SL-1400, SL-1600 never get mentioned in these threads.

It seems like the SL-1200 was the only table of interest.

I list those because I have them and find them to be very nice. There may be others (SL-1500?).
 
I have been a Dual fan for almost 30 years, and a good operating craft will not disappoint you. The Duals are very good quality turntables with excellent tracking. I have found them to be finicky when they are in less than operational condition, which may require servicing from qualified technicians.

Other turntable brands that I would recommend are: Technics, especially the 1200 MK2 (its an extremely well made unit with quality construction and precise operation, and it excels in most record playing functions), higher quality Garrard units from the mid seventies up to 1980, BIC turntable units (which draw heavy influence from Dual and Garrard crafts), JVC turntables, and Pioneer.

I have a special liking for BSR changers. On average, they may not have the best sound quality, and will be crude in their materials and record handling. BSRs are very dependable when they are in operational condition. If you are looking for a quality BSR, I would recommend their Quantra line of turntables.

Your best chance in obtaining a quality craft could be in either the Dual, Technics or Pioneer lines IMO.
 
The pioneer pl518 is a great turntable that can be had under $300 and sometimes under $150 in working order.

Other pioneer tables from that era are an equally good choice.
 
Hey all,

So - as much as I like my ProJect TT (the Carbon), I know that at some point (not immediately, but I like doing my homework on this stuff!), I will more than likely want to add a 2nd turntable/upgrade to my rig .

In addition to having a better performing table (as good as the Carbon sounds for it's specs/price point), it'd also be nice to have a TT where I can adjust the speed/pitch with controls on top, as opposed to having to lift the platter and manually switch belts around. Vintage aesthetics are also a nice bonus/would pair nicely w/my other components.

I've been curious about Dual turntables - I've heard they're really great for what you can buy them for, but that they can be a bit more of a PITA to work on than other TTs, and that this is especially the case on models w/automatic features (which I don't care about - I'd rather stay fully manual, or semi-auto at most tbh). How much truth is there to this?

If not a Dual, what are some nice "sleeper" models that are high on the food chain from other brands? (I've heard Pioneer, Marantz, and Sony made some nice units in 70's...but I'm open to any brands). Another option I considered was the good ol' Technics SL-1200, but again, I'm curious about options - well, for anything that doesn't run well into the thousands for a nice example :p.

Again, fully manual is kind of what I'd prefer to keep maintenance easier (but auto-return is OK), and it doesn't matter if it's belt drive or direct drive to me - quality is what counts!

Thanks!

You didn't give any indication about what kind of price you would consider "reasonable." I might consider reasonable to mean between 20 and 50 dollars with free shipping. Another responder might think reasonable could mean 200-400 dollars with 80 dollar shipping.

Also, regarding Duals, there are different eras in the Dual line. One of the attractions for the 1000-series and 1200-series machines is their inclusion of the 78-rpm speed. If you know you'll never have any interest in using that speed, then it expands your choices among Duals to include later models, and greatly expands your choices among other brands.

Those two series of Duals I mentioned are also record changers, but they can be used for single play. I replaced the changer spindle on my 1229 with a short, single-play post, soon after I got it. The same with the ELAC Miracord 50H/HII changer models that have much in common with Duals. As mentioned before by others, a Dual that has been serviced recently (or in recent decades) can be a thing of wonder, but any 40+ year-old Dual that hasn't been serviced, will need it. It is possible to learn how to refurbish them for oneself (with the generous help of archived forum posts and current forum members!), but it is a commitment--on the scale of getting married. If you acquire a Dual, and are considering refurbishing it or sending it off to be refurbished, the first three rules you need to be aware of are:
1) Don't force any controls or levers.
2) Don't force any controls or levers.
3) Don't force any controls or levers.
Things can break and have to be replaced if they are forced before old hardened lube has been removed or at least softened.

Whatever you consider reasonable to mean, finding a turntable locally can eliminate most packing and all shipping charges. Also, you should be able to see it operate and ask questions about it. If you do buy a turntable that has to be shipped, you absolutely have to make sure that the seller knows how to properly pack a turntable. If a heavy platter were to come loose in transit, there might as well be a small sledge hammer head bouncing around inside of the carton.
 
The pioneer pl518 is a great turntable that can be had under $300 and sometimes under $150 in working order.

Other pioneer tables from that era are an equally good choice.

I found a working PL518 at a yard sale for about 10 or 15 dollars. The original feet were gone, so I jerryrigged replacements. It's only problem was that the auto-tonearm-return function didn't work. Then, after I had been using it for about 3 or 4 years, suddenly it started to auto-return normally! It was my best turntable for several years, except that it couldn't also play a 78. A few years after I got and refurbed my Dual 1229, I rehomed the PL518 via my local craigslist. If I had room for more spare turntables than I have, I wouldn't mind having it back. I'd like to hear it with better cart/needle combos than I had when I owned it.
 
Back
Top Bottom