Dust cap sealing

Acoustic suspension speakers are not airtight, by design. And if no one cares about how it actually works, why continue to put forth your assumptions about how it works?

Acoustic suspension does not = air tight. Your balloon analogy is not applicable. The whole idea of the "rebound test" is to demonstrate a proper degree of porosity/leakiness. The design requires a small amount of air exchange...that's what makes it work.

Get a grip yourself. Personally, I'm interested in how things work. Makes fixing them a lot easier. Many others here also seem to be interested in how things work. Differing opinions are fine...but this particular topic is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
 
So no discussion of the stuffing in the box? The stuffing is there to slow down the air movement inside the box and to absorb reflections, right? So how does it affect the rebound going from a empty box to a fully stuffed one? It would seem to me that an empty box would be faster to rebound than a fully stuffed box, just based on how the air movement slows down in the stuffing. Anyone, Bueller?
 
The stuffing creates more volume by increasing surface area, from what I've read.
More volume by subtracting volume?

Makes sense in that the volume seems bigger to the woofer because it takes longer for the waves to travel from the woofer, through the stuffing, bounce off the inside of the box and back to the woofer.

What I'd like to know is, does the stuffing affect the "rebound test"? It would be great if someone could try it on an empty box vs. a fully stuffed one. I'm guessing an empty box compresses and decompresses faster than a stuffed box, but that's just intuition, which might be playing tricks on me...
 
Don't know, but it shouldn't. Although the propagation of the sound may create the illusion of more volume (loudness), the actual volume (size) inside the box is diminished by only a very small number.
 
The stuffing creates more volume by increasing surface area, from what I've read.

Absolutely correct.

As air moves through the fiber it is slowed by friction. So the stuffing acts as an acoustic brake. It does not reduce the cabinet volume unless the stuffing becomes so dense as to prevent the movement of air.
 
Don't know, but it shouldn't. Although the propagation of the sound may create the illusion of more volume (loudness), the actual volume (size) inside the box is diminished by only a very small number.

While the stuffing scatters light and appears to be dense, it is actually quite porous.
 
More volume by subtracting volume?

Makes sense in that the volume seems bigger to the woofer because it takes longer for the waves to travel from the woofer, through the stuffing, bounce off the inside of the box and back to the woofer.

What I'd like to know is, does the stuffing affect the "rebound test"? It would be great if someone could try it on an empty box vs. a fully stuffed one. I'm guessing an empty box compresses and decompresses faster than a stuffed box, but that's just intuition, which might be playing tricks on me...
The rebound test works regardless with the proper seal, but only as a test. I wouldn't play them without the stuffing.
 
a little update.

After revisiting some of my inventory and their surrounds.....I am finding the Midwest speaker foams are leakers. I have sealed the dust caps and the surrounds just dont seal.

I have recently tried a few sets from Rick Cobb......excellent seal. Like a good cloth surround woofer.

I revisted an AR3a woofer I refoamed with Geoaliwil........excellent seal.
I have a few Poly AR speakers I refoamed with Geoaliwil foams.......excellent seal.

I have ON order a set from Springfield speaker.....

I am very disapointed with Midwest speaker foams, and especially their customer service.

There is alot of work involved in doing these, and having porous surrounds , doesnt make me happy.
yeah,i live near them........pretty uppity also if you ask me,but did have success when they actually did the work as it is guaranteed.
 
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I echo WoodJ's comment.

I don't know why slathering PVA on surrounds, cones, and dust caps is considered to be an improvement that was somehow unknown to the original designers.

Many speakers have porous dust caps to cool the voice coil.

Here's a few rules to live by: (1) adding mass to a cone alters the frequency response; (2) stiffening a surround raises Fs and impedes dampening of ringing, (3) "sealing" a dust cap interferes with voice-coil cooling, adds mass, and may also increase ringing.

As a general rule, adding PVA to an acoustic suspension speaker causes irreperable damage to it. All of this has been well worked out by RoyC and others. I refer you to their scientific experiments here and on Classic Speaker Pages. Wonderful work. Clear and convincing. Actual experiments with actual science and actual testing with instruments. No reason to not accept all of it as true.

Just put down the PVA and back away from the cones.
 
I assume the goal of using the PVA is to get a 100% sealed box. As has been described above, and consistent with retrovert's excellent post, a completely, absolutely sealed enclosure is NOT a good objective. There must be some small amount of leakage/air exchange for the speaker to work correctly.
 
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Several different concepts are being discussed with confusion between them. I'll try to clarify the issues. First, let's understand the terms and what we are discussing. This is somewhat simplified because I'm trying to hit the essence.

Sealed-Cabinet Types

Infinite baffle
is a sealed box which does not use as a restoring force the air compressed by the woofer's backwards movement (backwave). The backwave, instead, is intentionally dissipated and lost inside the cabinet by expanding around baffles and into batting such that it cannot put pressure on the woofer. The suspension on the woofer, of the normal type, instead serves as the restoring spring. So while an infinite baffle cabinet is sealed (nearly but not completely sealed, though, as we'll later see), is is not acoustic suspension. The infinite baffle cabinet is normally significantly larger than an acoustic suspension or ported (bass reflex, transmission line, aperiodic vent or ARU, etc.) cabinet. Bozaks are the most familiar infinite baffle cabinet, but Electro-Voice also made them. Think big box.

Acoustic suspension: is a sealed box which uses as a restoring force the air compressed by the woofer's backwave. The rearward wave compresses air inside cabinet and this forces the woofer to its resting position. The driver's surround must be very soft and floppy so that it does not resist this restoring pressure and moves faster than it would otherwise do. Acoustic stuffing does not dissipate the backwave; it, instead, serves as an acoustic brake to slow the propagation of the waveform, allowing greater excursion and slowing the frontward movement, but it does not reduce the interior cabinet pressure. So while an acoustic suspension cabinet is sealed exactly like an infinite baffle, it is not functioning in the same way because in acoustic suspension the backwave is required for proper functioning.

Perfectly Sealed Box

When any sealed box, be it infinite baffle or acoustic suspension, is perfectly sealed then the air pressure internal to the box differs from the air pressure external to the box. The interior cabinet air would be trapped at the time of manufacture, and its volume fixed. As a result, as the external pressure increased or decreased the cone would be moved in or out, changing its resting position.

Air Exchange

To avoid having the resting position vary with air pressure—air pressure varies with altitude and with storms, so it constantly changes, which is how a barometer works—every cabinet must therefore have a means to permit air exchange between the interior and exterior. The mechanism of exchange must be small to avoid having the backwave exit through that orifice and thus (a) (in infinite baffle and acoustic suspension) interfere with the front wave or (b) (in acoustic suspension) reduce the restoring force on the woofer by reducing the interior cabinet pressure.

At the same time, the orifice must be sized large enough such that air does not rapidly move through it or the orifice will squeak, like one of those rubber squeeze toys for dogs or children. A pinhole will squeak.

Dust Cap as Exchange Orifice

The dustcap is a nice way to exchange air from the interior of the cabinet to the exterior, and this also cools the voice coil preventing it from overheating and even burning out. It provides a nice surface area so the rate of air flow through any spot is small.

Cabinet Sealing

Despite the need for tiny amounts of air exchange, in both acoustic suspension and infinite baffle the cabinet best functions with a nearly perfect air seal. This is why a gooey caulking like Mortite (tm) or other filled butylene rubber was historically used around the drivers and the back. It is why the surround must be resealed after some decades, because the butylene rubber in the surround has oxidized, hardened, flaked off, or otherwise degraded. The drivers must be perfectly sealed to the baffle, the back must be perfectly sealed to the cabinet, and the surround must be perfectly sealed to prevent air from moving through it. The only air exchange is through an opening kept small and diffuse, and that is the dust cap.

As has been demonstrated, the dust cap must be a bit porous to allow some air flow to equalize the air pressure and to cool the woofer voice coil which can become quite hot.

Conclusion:

Never believe what you read on the internet without critically analyzing it. Nearly every bit of what is discussed about vintage speaker "improvements" using adhesives and caulks is pernicious and dangerous nonsense. Don't let people convince you that their cult is correct.
Reserarch, verify, and think about every single proposed change. Replacing bits of a vintage Acoustic Research or other acoustic suspension speaker is expensive, time consuming, and leaves you with a different speaker than the one you had.

Until you understand—deeply and thoroughly understand, not casually but hundreds or thousands of hours of education and understanding—how a loudspeaker functions, don't modify it. IF YOU LACK THIS LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING THEN DO NOT MODIFY IT.

Edit: fixed three typos and a missing comma that were pointed out to me. Thanks to those who found them. Hopefully that's it.
 
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