I've moved to the 7581A. Better top, better bottom.
EL34 vs. 6L6GC vs. 7591 ? Truth - Who's Best !
- Thread starter Gary Mattis
- Start date
My EL34 amp is running JJ 6L6GCs, I like the sound very much and lower filament current, my 6L6GC/7027A amp is running Tung-Sol 7581As, sounds much better than it did with the (Tung-Sol) 6L6GCs with better imaging and tighter bass but I made some cap replacements at the same time so hard to say it was the tubes.
There are so many threads on this that when I started reading I eventually gave up. I found two things to be consistent: Different amp designs react differently, and people don't agree on what is best (or even what the differences are).
There are so many threads on this that when I started reading I eventually gave up. I found two things to be consistent: Different amp designs react differently, and people don't agree on what is best (or even what the differences are).
If those new caps were in the power supply, the amp will sound bass rich for a while until they break in (10 hours or so). I use Tung-Sol 7581As in the push pull class A amp I just finished building, and I do like the 7581A's very much. Biggest difference in my opinion between the TS 7581A and TS 6L6GC-STR is not really better bass (although it might be slightly deeper, tighter), but rather an overall more refined top to bottom presentation. The TS 7581A sounds more like a KT120 to me but with a bit more extended top end.
The only caps I replaced in the first pass are a pair of audio-coupling caps (K40s), and the HV bias small caps / selenium > schottky update. The audio coupling caps could be a big part of the sonic difference if the old ones were bad (weren't noisy, original "black beauty" Sprague).
Going to roll some tubes eventually and see if I can tell between the 6L6GCs and 7581As, but I like what I hear and am enjoying listening to the music for now.
Going to roll some tubes eventually and see if I can tell between the 6L6GCs and 7581As, but I like what I hear and am enjoying listening to the music for now.
gmfgmfgmf1
Active Member
I have amps with all these plus 6550s (6550 should be on list)
My fave is 7591 however I have only "converted" one amp to these - stay with the design engineer IMO
I had email conversation with Mr. Oliver (Ampeg and Portaflex designer also Oliver amps) - he made amps with 7591s but told me 6L6 was a better tube in his opinion
I do not like EL84 for some reason - seems thin to me
My fave is 7591 however I have only "converted" one amp to these - stay with the design engineer IMO
I had email conversation with Mr. Oliver (Ampeg and Portaflex designer also Oliver amps) - he made amps with 7591s but told me 6L6 was a better tube in his opinion
I do not like EL84 for some reason - seems thin to me
Maybe why some call them "Continental slimmies"?
Or not.
As has been said but appears not to make the necessary impression:
There is no such thing as one tube 'sounding' different to another (within the same class, and correct design, obviously) full stop.
Basically, electrons have no feeling for sound, as in influencing different frequencies or whatever. That is not to say that folks lie when they hear differences, but it is all in the circuitry. Apart from which, we are comparing here pentodes to beam tubes, tubes with substantially different Gms .... etc. Lets be reasonable!
What I also miss is the mention of spread in characteristics of same tubes. Down in R.S.A. we are importing much the same brands as used elsewhere. Has nobody found that same number of tube from same factory, can have a spread from 65% - 130% ?? No wonder the sound would differ! [Okay, I have given the extremes of spreads I found.... But among some 42 6L6GCs (same brand) I have found spreads of +/- 15% not uncommon. So what exactly is being compared to what when we pull one tube and stick in one other?]
I am not being dismissive/disrespectful regarding so-called tube rolling, only let us be practical and not compare (say) ripe apples to green ones (!) or whatever similar analogy might apply - also meaning 'testing' with one tube from whatever make at a time and then characterising the brand.
If of any consequence, my preference is for 6L6GCs, simply because they are freely available, not overly high gms (thats where spreads appear, also variation with temperature), reasonably efficient, 30W anode dissipation, and comparatively cheap - at least down here.
........ and at this time, a cheerful Christmas and safe new year to all!
There is no such thing as one tube 'sounding' different to another (within the same class, and correct design, obviously) full stop.
Basically, electrons have no feeling for sound, as in influencing different frequencies or whatever. That is not to say that folks lie when they hear differences, but it is all in the circuitry. Apart from which, we are comparing here pentodes to beam tubes, tubes with substantially different Gms .... etc. Lets be reasonable!
What I also miss is the mention of spread in characteristics of same tubes. Down in R.S.A. we are importing much the same brands as used elsewhere. Has nobody found that same number of tube from same factory, can have a spread from 65% - 130% ?? No wonder the sound would differ! [Okay, I have given the extremes of spreads I found.... But among some 42 6L6GCs (same brand) I have found spreads of +/- 15% not uncommon. So what exactly is being compared to what when we pull one tube and stick in one other?]
I am not being dismissive/disrespectful regarding so-called tube rolling, only let us be practical and not compare (say) ripe apples to green ones (!) or whatever similar analogy might apply - also meaning 'testing' with one tube from whatever make at a time and then characterising the brand.
If of any consequence, my preference is for 6L6GCs, simply because they are freely available, not overly high gms (thats where spreads appear, also variation with temperature), reasonably efficient, 30W anode dissipation, and comparatively cheap - at least down here.
........ and at this time, a cheerful Christmas and safe new year to all!
mjw21a
Super Member
Hmph.... My favourites are 6P3S-E coin base and KT120.
The 6P3S-E are similar to KT88 in terms of linearity though warmer and more holographic.... KT120's are my preference with the same characteristics of 6P3S-E though with a sense of unlimited power and a little more midrange which makes them altogether more enjoyable. Kind of like an EL34 with more power, treble and bass.
The 6P3S-E are similar to KT88 in terms of linearity though warmer and more holographic.... KT120's are my preference with the same characteristics of 6P3S-E though with a sense of unlimited power and a little more midrange which makes them altogether more enjoyable. Kind of like an EL34 with more power, treble and bass.
Follow:
I apologise for not getting the quoted part from SaturationPt's referred post right in my previous post. It should have been:
I apologise for not getting the quoted part from SaturationPt's referred post right in my previous post. It should have been:
I realize that they are the same other than max power, but I ordered a set of TS 6L6GCs and something just wasn't right, only tested marginal also, ordered a set of the TS 7581As and plugged those in and all sounds right again. Same tube design other than max plate dissipation, yet different. Also seems to weigh about twice as much, heavier glass. At any rate, it is possible that the 6L6s were not right, and it is also apparent that they do not come from the same line and therefore it is possible that it isn't made in the same plant or from the same tooling.
Just another variable.
Running the EL34 amp with 6L6GCs all day playing Christmas music, PT doesn't seem to run very hot, maybe an advantage of going from 1.5A heaters to .9A heaters. I do like that.
Just another variable.
Running the EL34 amp with 6L6GCs all day playing Christmas music, PT doesn't seem to run very hot, maybe an advantage of going from 1.5A heaters to .9A heaters. I do like that.
FWIW, Kegger loved that tube. I have boxes of them I set aside as I knew he felt they were special. I'm pretty sure the ST70 in his avatar was modded to run them and I believe I still have that set aside also. He said in 2006 it was the "best sounding amp in my house".
Yep, I did some digging and found this...
"The acro TO-300's on my latest 6bg6g/350b amp"
It is the amp in his avatar; he used MSPaint to get a reversal on it and it's running the 350s, which I also have set aside, as well as some converters for the 6BG6Gs.
Getting that amp running is on my winter project list...
Then
And now..
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It was originally an 807 on an octal base.
On socket adapters, the same can be done with 807.I just found this with the 6BG6Gs....
Yep. Keg had bunches of 807s too, and I kept a few of them also.
He loved finding off the beaten path tubes with good curves and using them. He tweaked my Magnavox 8802 to use 6U8s and 6K6s rather than 6EU7s and 6V6s as he felt they both worked better than the OEM tubes.
He loved finding off the beaten path tubes with good curves and using them. He tweaked my Magnavox 8802 to use 6U8s and 6K6s rather than 6EU7s and 6V6s as he felt they both worked better than the OEM tubes.
Exactly my experience with the TS 7581A. They sound better than the TAD 6L6GC I tried.
thomasreyn
New Member
6L6 has a better low range while EL34 has a better mid-range and a huge high range. EL34 has a crisp and crunch sound as compared to 6L6 tubes. YOu can read more about 6L6 vs EL34 here.
