Elna Silmic II vs. Nichicon Caps ...in the signal path

PB_Audio

Super Member
We hear a lot about these caps, here.
For the uninformed, such as myself,
what are the practical differences,
and when may one be preferred over the other?
I'm guessing its a sonic performance vs. cost issue,
but then, I'd rather be informed.
My tech is more familiar with Nichicon; but then he doesn't see much high-end. Do we need to have a serious talk?
I best be fully informed before I begin that converastion, right?
Thanks,
Jay
 
We hear a lot about these caps, here.
For the uninformed, such as myself,
what are the practical differences,
and when may one be preferred over the other?
I'm guessing its a sonic performance vs. cost issue,
but then, I'd rather be informed.
My tech is more familiar with Nichicon; but then he doesn't see much high-end. Do we need to have a serious talk?
I best be fully informed before I begin that converastion, right?
Thanks,
Jay

Signal Path: Elna Silmic II (They will take up to 100 hours to sound best)

Power Supply: Nichicon KZ, then FG

Main Filter Caps: Nichicon KG

Or many find that the Panasonic 105 deg. FC and FM are also nice.

I am sure others will chime in on this one, btw if he is using all Nichicon they are very good.
 
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Thanks patfont. I've noted your contributions in prior threads. Very helpful!
There seems to be sufficiently diverse opinion that the issue warrants a more complete discussion than I've been able to find thus far.
I hope we can put up some useful guidelines all may find useful.
It seems there is more discussion among tuner techs about circuit mods and component optimiztion than I've seen here. I'm not sure why. Hopefully someone will suggest a likely reason.
IMHO...it seems like a natural progression, first from a simple repair, to a full unit refurb with basicly OEM components, and then to a circuit and/or component optimization.
Collectively, there is a wealth of knowledge on AK. Seems like a beneficial goal to consolidate that knowledge into some basic principals the less experienced among us may appreciate.
I thought, because of the eventual ageing of caps in the vintage audio we love, and the frequent need for replacement, capacitors would make for a good general discussion.
 
Thanks patfont. I've noted your contributions in prior threads. Very helpful!
There seems to be sufficiently diverse opinion that the issue warrants a more complete discussion than I've been able to find thus far.
I hope we can put up some useful guidelines all may find useful.
It seems there is more discussion among tuner techs about circuit mods and component optimiztion than I've seen here. I'm not sure why. Hopefully someone will suggest a likely reason.
IMHO...it seems like a natural progression, first from a simple repair, to a full unit refurb with basicly OEM components, and then to a circuit and/or component optimization.
Collectively, there is a wealth of knowledge on AK. Seems like a beneficial goal to consolidate that knowledge into some basic principals the less experienced among us may appreciate.
I thought, because of the eventual ageing of caps in the vintage audio we love, and the frequent need for replacement, capacitors would make for a good general discussion.

Why did I use Elna Silmic II in the signal path:

1. Here is a link check it out:

http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html

2. I owned a Threshold S150 amp at one time, designed by Nelson Pass: He seems to think Silmic II sounds best and recommends them. (google it)

3. There is a rebuilder advertised below on this page who also likes them.

4. When I called many who sell caps and questioned them, lets call them XYZ, they recommended the Silmic II also.

5. My own ears, replaced them in my 2220B and was pretty blown away. My system is pretty optimized so I can here even a small differences in my system. I got to the point where I stopped listening to the equipment and was listening to the music and hanging on to every note.

***I have a 2220B that is totally original, and a 2220B that is restored with ungraded caps etc, When time permits I would like to do a detailed review and go over the differences.

Again this is only my opinion and there are others on this forum with way more technical knowledge and repair expertise then I will ever have, but I do have a decent ear and like what I am hearing.
 
Well, I've seen more than a few, here, who definitely agree that the Elna Silmic II caps, particularly in the signal path, have sonic benefits. I'm basicly convinced.
Since my tech plans to use Nichicon, though, in a Model 125 Tuner of mine he's had for a while, I feel the need to investigate the issue ASAP. He had been in the hospital, but is recovered, for the most part, and anxious to get back to work. Finally, may tuner is up next; and here I am questioning his choice of caps. Hes a friend, so I can't just go and pick up the tuner and take it elsewhere. I guess the issue is the extra time and inconvenience involves in sourcing the Elna caps.
Under the circumstances, a contrast between the Silmic II and the Nichicon may go a long way toward easing my mind with the tech's choice...or not.
It's still early, so far we have a concensus of two...so, I'm not feeling very good about the Nichicons. Naturally.
Anyway, I'd like to see if there is a diversity of opinion, especially since the Nichicon caps seem to be the 'standard' 'upgrade', and are very popular.
Should be interesting to see what develops.
 
I just use good cap's like Nichicon pmm , Panasonic nhg, Rubycon etc....

BHC aerovox in the PS


Cheers
 
I've been using FC for a long time, never been disappointed in the sound. A few folks I've done recaps for haven't been let down either.

But I'm going to try Silmic II in a couple upcoming projects. I'll let you know the results.
 
Thanks Kyle. I think I'm close to attempting a project, so I'm drilling down to the basics. I'll probably tackle a 2245, then a 2270.
Still looking for a Model 19. One day.
Panasonic FC in the PS.
Wish me luck...
 
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I've been using FC for a long time, never been disappointed in the sound. A few folks I've done recaps for haven't been let down either.

But I'm going to try Silmic II in a couple upcoming projects. I'll let you know the results.
Did you ever try that test?
 
Caps are a subject that people have strong opinions on. Some people with unlimited funds prefer caps with 24ct gold foil, using the finest snake oil as the electrolyte, soaked in pure silk sheets from free range (not battery) silkworms, and hand-rolled on the thighs of dusky maidens (which I would pay extra for if I could watch them do it).

Personally, I use all Nichicon. PW low impedance for smaller power supplies like preamps and/or the driver stages of integrateds. For the signal path, anything 10uf or smaller gets Wima films, above 10uf and it's Nichicon KL low leakage. Elsewhere it's Nichicon FW or KW audio grade. Certain exceptions would be where a bigger bipolar is needed, like the feedback loop of a power amp, then I might use Nichicon ES. Main power caps would be Nichicon, Panasonic, United Chemi Con, whatever physically fits the best.

Lee.
 
Personally, I use all Nichicon. PW low impedance for smaller power supplies like preamps and/or the driver stages of integrateds. For the signal path, anything 10uf or smaller gets Wima films, above 10uf and it's Nichicon KL low leakage. Elsewhere it's Nichicon FW or KW audio grade
Yep.. went this way myself over time. I keep a stock of Wima and/or Pansonic film caps the lower 'frads' and Nichicon for the rest. The exception can be the main filter caps. That is driven by size at times or lead style vs brand. I have not been able to tell any difference between the units with Nichicon or Kemet or Rubycon for the main filter caps. Then again, I listened to a lot of rock way too loud as a punk so I may not be the best judge ;)
 
Just trying to wrap my head around this...what would be the rationale for ever using electrolytic caps over po!yprope!ene film caps?...cost, size, sound, proper performance??

Just starting to read Patfonts post but I know these are the qualities I value most:

Sound Stage: width and depth
Low level/inner detail
Rhythm and drive
 
Big fan of the Silmic line myself. Went thru three different sources to collect these.

qrx9001-caps.jpg


Unfortunately, some values just weren't available. I did find a source for the big uns prior to that rebuild ... :banana:


elna-cap-board-01.jpg
 
Just trying to wrap my head around this...what would be the rationale for ever using electrolytic caps over po!yprope!ene film caps?...cost, size, sound, proper performance??

Just starting to read Patfonts post but I know these are the qualities I value most:

Sound Stage: width and depth
Low level/inner detail
Rhythm and drive
If I understand correctly, one reason for liberal use of electrolytics by manufacturers is that films get large and bulky in higher values. Films seem to be most commonly used in values around and below 4.7 uF. Above that, you get more bang for your buck size wise with electrolytics.
 
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