Empire A15E Cartridge??? Anyone have any idea?

[desertrat748]

I'm looking at a turntable with an Empire A15E cartridge. I've scoured the Chunky Empires, it looks like one but can't find any info on this model. It's clearly marked Empire, and down the side is marked A 15 E. I'd like to be able to get a stylus for it and know where it lies in the crazy Empire cart line up. Can Empire get anymore crazy with their different models?

I've gone through so many posts that my head hurts.

Thank you for any help.

Desertrat

 

[boreas]

The A15E was a part of Empire's Audiophile Series. In turn, it seems to be the same cartridge as the 300ME, a cartridge from the Dynamic Interface Series about which more information is available.

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/empire/300me.shtml

John

 

[wualta]

Since all the bodies in the A series below the 30 are the same, it's more a matter of which stylus do you want to put in your A 15 E, and can you find it. In other words, the stylus determines the model, which means you're in control of where your A 15 E is in the lineup. All you have to do is find (and be able to afford) the stylus you want, so at this point it's strictly a matter of availability.

Among original styli that might still be found on places like eBay I can suggest looking for the S400TC and the S44E, and in the aftermarket the 4241-DID from thevoiceofmusic.com ($28 +$4.15 ship) [EDIT: now long out of stock] has served many of us well.

TAG: A15E

 

[boreas]

Forgetting for the moment that it contains the wrong cartridge (Stanton 500), here's what the A15E packaging looked like.

Now I'd like to know the other cartridges in the "Audiophile Series" and whether they're essentially the same as the "Dynamic Interface Series".
(Goes off muttering to himself about the pointless proliferation of identical Empires under different names.)

John

 

[Gretsch6120]

Here is the white S30ST stylus for the A30ST. Anybody know which chunky this is equivalent to?? Thank you

 

[wualta]

(Goes off muttering to himself about the pointless proliferation of identical Empires under different names.)

And I'm gonna go off muttering about eBayers who list things by the package they're in instead of by what's actually in the package.

But before I do, I want to put out the call for anyone who's owned an A 11 E, A 15 E, A 20 ME, A 30 ST, or A 33 ST since new and still has the instructions with the specifications to please scan that sucker and post it in the Big Empire Thread UPDATE: We got it!]. Photos of the cartridge and its original stylus will be gratefully accepted. And yes, the A series is yet another runthrough of the Dynamic Interface post-1980 lineup.

The only spec sheet I have from the A series is the A 22 ME, which turns out to be a clone of the 400 TC and TC 40. Haven't seen a conical (equivalent of the S100) for the A line yet. Maybe, as with the earliest Dynamic Interface lineup (the one with the TC 40) there isn't one...? EDIT: I went on to guess that the A 30 ST was high inductance based on my then-current belief that the LTD 750 was high inductance. Both assumptions have been proven wrong.

Here is the white S 30 ST stylus for the A 30 ST. Anybody know which chunky this is equivalent to??

Thanks for those photos.
Stick the diamond under a microscope and look for the telltale flats front and back that characterize an elliptical. If you don't see 'em, my guess is that it's a clone of my 75 LAC.
TAGS: A11E A15E A22E A30ST A33ST

 

[desertrat748]

And I'm gonna go off muttering about eBayers who list things by the package they're in instead of by what's actually in the package.

But before I do, I want to put out the call for anyone who's owned an A11E (which has a stumplike cantilever that reminds me of the S906E), A15E, A20ME, or A30ST since new and still has the instructions with the specifications to please scan that sucker and post it in the Big Empire Thread. Photos of the cartridge and its original stylus will be gratefully accepted.

The only spec sheet of the A series I have is the A22ME, which turns out to be a clone of the 400 TC and TC 40. Haven't seen a conical (equivalent of the S100) for the A line yet. Maybe there isn't one...?


My guess, based on the "ST" suffix and the fact that we haven't found, say, an "A40LAC" or something similar, is that it's the high-inductance line contact, a clone of the dark green S750LTD. Stick the diamond under a microscope and look for the telltale flats front and back that characterize an elliptical. If you don't see 'em, my guess is very likely correct. Interestingly, there was also an A 33 ST, but nothing numerically higher than that has shown up.

Haven't seen a conical (equivalent of the S100) for the A line yet. Maybe there isn't one...?

I think the one I'm getting, A15E, is coming with a conical stylus. I'll give everyone some pics when I get it set up.

I'm an Empire fan. Have a 2008, 2000 eiii, and an exl-20, all with orig Empire stylus, but 2 aftermarkets that don't sound as nice (too much treble and sibilant) so I swapped back to the used Empires.

The Exl-20 is awesome. On a old Sony T3 (with all auto guts taken out, pure manual) the xl20 sounds so life like, I'm very happy with the sound . 2000 iii is on a pioneer pl-5 and sounds better with the original red stylus than with the aftermarket. I hope I haven't hurt it as the aftermarket was such a tight fit, it seemed to loosen up the opening.

The 2008 has an original clear Empire stylus. Currently on a Onkyo 1030f which I think is underrated. I'm using it as I learn how to record on a computer digitally. My first attempt sounds amazing. I can't tell the difference between this vs. a CD other than the LP copy has a better low end, fuller sound.

I'm contemplating buying a nagaoka MP 110 and comparing to my Empires. Maybe I can find something that brings as much stage presence, smooth sound as the old Empires. What carts are out there that sound as good?

Why can't anyone build a decent aftermarket stylus for Empire? Did they have the magical recipe that no one else can duplicate?

I'll update with some pics when I get the Chunky A15E.

 

[desertrat748]

Question: What is the difference with the Empire carts that have 1000k/600mh vs. the ones that have 500k/300 mh resistance? Sound difference? The 2000 iii has something like 1040k on my meter and probably sounds the most balanced & life like than any of the others I have. It has the original Empire Red stylus on it. I can't keep up with them, "muttering to myself about the 4735 different Empire models that I have found"

 

[Gretsch6120]

The 2000E/III should have a clear stylus. The red version is for the lower end 2000E- 3 steps down from the III and the entry level elliptical in that line.

 

[desertrat748]

The 2000E/III should have a clear stylus. The red version is for the lower end 2000E- 3 steps down from the III and the entry level elliptical in that line.

I have an after market clear one, but the red one sounds so much better. Better low end, no sibilance, and overall can listen for hours. Can't do that with the clear one.

 

[desertrat748]

Been waiting on the A15E but hasn't arrived yet. But, I picked up an 66 e/x with an empire black stylus. Doesn't look like it was used much. Has dull gray cantilever, looks like it's coated with some texture (boron vapor?). Measured the impedance, 618 ohms R, 619 ohms L. Set up on PL-5 and it sounds fantastic. I'm impressed with Empires. Swapped out different stylus, and the red 2000E stylus sounds too bright.

I measured the exl 20, 512 ohms R, 514 L. It has factory purple stylus and isn't smooth/even or quiet as the 66 e/x. I then compared them both to the 2008 w real Empire stylus silver. The 2008 is more detailed, balanced, with better bass. Can't wait to compare the chunky A15E to the 66 e/x.

 

[wualta]

The black stylus, if it's original-genuine, sounds like an S906E, the base elliptical of the 66 series and its clones. Heavy tracking but good sounding. No boron vapor in the early '70s-- that came in the '80s.

The red 2000E stylus was meant for a body with nearly twice the inductance, thus the treble boost (and level drop). In its own body it will sound just right.

If the factory purple stylus doesn't sound as good as the black stylus, chances are it's worn, but there could be other things happening after 40+ years of knocking about the world. All this assumes original-genuine styli.

 

[desertrat748]

The black stylus, if it's original-genuine, sounds like an S906E, the base elliptical of the 66 series and its clones. Heavy tracking but good sounding. No boron vapor in the early '70s-- that came in the '80s.

The red 2000E stylus was meant for a body with nearly twice the inductance, thus the treble boost (and level drop). In its own body it will sound just right.

If the factory purple stylus doesn't sound as good as the black stylus, chances are it's worn, but there could be other things happening after 40+ years of knocking about the world. All this assumes original-genuine styli.

It came with the original box, warranty card, instructions and spec sheets. I wouldn't say it was a heavy tracker as it's giving 3/4 to 1.5 grams, 8-34000 hz, .3x.7 elliptical diamond, 30 db separation. Specs look like what I've seen from a 66 PE/x but who knows what the heck was going on with Empire. Definitely not a heavy tracker as I'm running it at 0.9 and it's perfect..

 

[boreas]

QUOTE="desertrat748, post: 11231281, member: 248411"]It came with the original box, warranty card, instructions and spec sheets. I wouldn't say it was a heavy tracker as it's giving 3/4 to 1.5 grams, 8-34000 hz, .3x.7 elliptical diamond, 30 db separation. Specs look like what I've seen from a 66 PE/x but who knows what the heck was going on with Empire. Definitely not a heavy tracker as I'm running it at 0.9 and it's perfect..[/QUOTE]

Do you have a way of scanning or photographing the spec sheet you have for the 66E/X and posting it here? The spec sheet I have for the 66 Series lists the S906E (S66E/X-ERD) at 0.75 to 3.0g. and 8Hz to 3kHz. I wonder whether Empire changed the specs at some point.

John

[EDIT] It seems that they did change the specs at least once but not by much. See attached.

 

[wualta]

A photo of the stylus would be interesting too. It may not be an S906E, especially if you're not having "sibilance" problems at 0.9g VTF!

 

[desertrat748]

QUOTE="desertrat748, post: 11231281, member: 248411"]It came with the original box, warranty card, instructions and spec sheets. I wouldn't say it was a heavy tracker as it's giving 3/4 to 1.5 grams, 8-34000 hz, .3x.7 elliptical diamond, 30 db separation. Specs look like what I've seen from a 66 PE/x but who knows what the heck was going on with Empire. Definitely not a heavy tracker as I'm running it at 0.9 and it's perfect..

Do you have a way of scanning or photographing the spec sheet you have for the 66E/X and posting it here? The spec sheet I have for the 66 Series lists the S906E (S66E/X-ERD) at 0.75 to 3.0g. and 8Hz to 3kHz. I wonder whether Empire changed the specs at some point.

John

[EDIT] It seems that they did change the specs at least once but not by much. See attached.

View attachment 1093583 View attachment 1093595[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'll get a pic of it, the stylus & body too. I'm finding the same specs that you are showing, but this body doesn't measure the exact same as a 2000 iii body or others. It is slightly thicker, wider and has a shorter flat space where they put the "inked" model number. Instead it has a smaller sticker with the "66 E/X" on it.

Edit: It was marked at the LE/X price $34.95, and given exact PE/X specs to a tee. I don't know what Empire was doing at this point. The body on it is definitely different than a 2000.

I'm going to get my digital calipers and measure this fat cart. body. Also, all of the others that I have, have red/pinkish plastic inside the body and you can see the magnets/post. This one doesn't have the red color inside but rather a grey looking material. The cantilever is dull grey, short, and looks like it was sprayed with some metal or something. Some kind of coating on it. I got to walk the dog and my Wildcats are playing Stanford in 45 minutes so after that I'll dig out the paperwork and get the pics.

Important thing is this Cart is impressive, sounds very balanced with excellent bass. Threw on some Daft Punk and the Cerwin Vegas took care of the rest. John Coltrane is up next. I don't have great musical taste, but this cart covers what I like very well. I've just ordered a spare Empire stylus. Should keep me going for a couple of years.

 

[boreas]

I think you'll find that the 66E/X and the 2000III bodies are the same size. The sticker on the 66E/X may create an illusion that they're different.

Also the grayish color of the cantilever is probably just corrosion. These weren't coated with anything. It's not hurting anything so not to worry. As for the thickness of the cantilevr, I'm guessing that means that you have the earlier "Pignose" stylus, tather than the later style with the flip-down stylus guard. I have both types and the later type has a slightly more slender and longer cantilever.

I have a couple of 66 clones, the 999XE/X. One's fitted with an S906E and the other with the purple S914E, making them in effect, a 66E/X and a 66VE/X. I like them both a lot.

John

 

[desertrat748]

[/ATTACH]

I think you'll find that the 66E/X and the 2000III bodies are the same size. The sticker on the 66E/X may create an illusion that they're different.

Also the grayish color of the cantilever is probably just corrosion. These weren't coated with anything. It's not hurting anything so not to worry. As for the thickness of the cantilevr, I'm guessing that means that you have the earlier "Pignose" stylus, tather than the later style with the flip-down stylus guard. I have both types and the later type has a slightly more slender and longer cantilever.

I have a couple of 66 clones, the 999XE/X. One's fitted with an S906E and the other with the purple S914E, making them in effect, a 66E/X and a 66VE/X. I like them both a lot.

John

Just measured them. The width on the 66 is a few thousandths wider but that's probably just within normal variance. However, the slanted part on the nose, is much longer on the 66, and the flat part where the label goes is 1/10 shorter on the 66; hence using a sticker because the silk screen ink printing won't fit. It's definitely shorter.

 

[desertrat748]

Here's a pic. If I put the calipers on it the 66 measures .262" and only .242" on a 2000 body or on the xl 20 body. The inside of my 2000iii, 2008, xl 20 and 2000 e, are all made with red colored material and the 66 has something different, looks dark grey & white inside. Maybe they were changing things up? Outsourced? I'm pretty sure that's why it has a sticker with the model number rather than printed out with ink.


look how short the body flat part is on the 66 versus how long the slant part is on it. Sorry but I can't get a great pic with my camera. I reload for target shooting, in brass and a few thousandths difference is a lot sometimes to a point where brass won't chamber. 20 is a large amount that is easy to see when it's in your hand.

 

[desertrat748]

A better look at what I'm seeing.