Empire Thread of Inductance & Resistance for 2000 style bodies

[desertrat748]

Starting this thread to help those who may be purchasing a 2000 style blob body and not knowing what stylus to use for it. Empire seemed to add model numbers to these bodies without any clear thought process or reasoning. It's mindboggling to try and make sense of it. But as suggested by others, it's easiest to separate them into different categories based on inductance/resistance.


For example Empire 66 bodies all have around 330 mH and 500-600 ohms. The 66 bodies work best with a 239-PDE (purple) stylus, orig. part number S910E. 2000 E bodies have higher inductance/resistance near 1000 ohms and work best with the 237-DET (clear or translucent blue) stylus, orig. part number S2000E/III.

The 2000Z type bodies all have higher inductance/resistance around 1250 ohms and only work with the smaller shank stylus like 237 DEZ or 239 DET (which won't work with any other body type). Hope this helps with knowing what is what with Empire & the Blob carts.

Feel free to copy the body of info to add to it, edit, or make corrections. If you post new info. I'll edit and add to this original start until we come up with a very thorough list. (Note: I don't know what to do with the 4000 bodies as I don't have one to measure resistance. Any help/suggestions are welcome. Maybe a 4th type?)

Here’s what I’ve got so far actually measured out that match up with one of the three types :




2000 bodies 1000-1100 ohms ~ 650mH: 2000 e/i 2000e/ii 2000e/iii all about 1100 ohms, 2200E/III 680mH 1040 ohms, 845QE/D 675mH 1120 ohms, 1000 SE/X 1070 ohms 630mH
2005 QX 1050ohms 610mH,

66 bodies 500-600 ohms, ~ 350 mH: 66/ex 300mH-600 ohms, exl-20 505 ohms, exl-20 improved 490 ohms, 2003 AE/X 515 ohms, 99XE/X 320mH 530 ohms,1000 E/X 340mH,2000 ME/X III 340mH, 3000 ME/X 350mH, 2000 QX 340mH,

4000 bodies ~400-500 ohms: ~250mH: 4000-XL1 320mH, 4000XL-III 530 ohms, SE9900 265mH, 2000X (4000 used for stereo w fancy red metallic stylus) 430ohms 220mH ,



2000Z bodies 1200-1300 ohms: 2008 1260 ohms, exl-30 1255 ohms, 3000AV 770mH-1200 ohms


ODDBALLS FOUND GO HERE: Low inductance 250mH-350mH, 4000 or 66 clone, mid inductance 650 mH 2000E clone, high inductance 800mH or higher 2000Z clone:

2000E/iii oddball 533ohms 233mH, 2000 oddball 930 ohms 256mH,

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?attachments/img_20180628_105505220-jpg.1222440/


Please consider adding to the list to help out.

DR

 

[russdall]

_________________________________________________________________________

Recorded "Empire" inductance ranges by AK members, up to page (58) of the big Empire thread.

4000D III..... 230 mH
440D......425 Ohms/244 mH
2000 X..... 245 mH
999 XE/X..... 250 mH
3001T ….....440 Ohms
SE9900..... 265 mH
REX66-X..... 290 mH
66 QE/X..... 310 mH
2004......512 ohms/310 mH
4000 XL1..... 320 mH
1000 E/X..... 340 mH
QX 2000 ......340 mH
2000..... 340 mH
2000 ME/X III..... 340 mH
3000 ME/X..... 350 mH
EXL 20..... 524 ohms/350 mH
888-TE …..645 ohms/350 mH
808 II E …...650 ohms/360 mH
312LPM-STR..... 360 mH
999 TE/X......520 ohms/397 mH
2000E/III …...1250 ohms/588 mH
2000Z......1150 ohms/630 mH
100S …..1500 ohms/660 mH
LTD 200..... 675 mH
800 UFR..... 680 mH
999VE …...695 mH
OP1,300Z,LTD400,LTD450,..... ALL 680 to 700 mH
100S..... 700 mH
TC-40..... 700 mH
OP4..... 700 mH

"Slight Disclaimer"
Again, Most of these are "posted/reported" readings from the Big Empire thread, here on AK. If anyone notices mistakes and or discrepancies in "the above" posted readings, "PLEASE" let us know, so we can make corrections,as soon as possible. Thanks!

 

[desertrat748]

Thought I would share inductance readings as I go along here, for each cart tested...Just FYI

1000 E/X......Right; 338........Left; 343 (gold)

3000 ME/X, (corrected).......R; 350......Left; 349 (gold)

66 QE/X....Right; 301......Left; 315 (gold)

2000 QX ......Right; 349....Left: 339 (black)


Note; These all have labeled "color coded" rear ends.

_________________________________________________________________________

Recorded inductance ranges by AK members, up to page 43 of big Empire thread.

4000D III..... 230
2000 X..... 245

Thanks Russ, I've added the ones that I know are 2000 body style. Hopefully, more will come along to add to the list. I think Empire only had something like 8347 model numbers with their name and probably only a few 10,000 more private labels. Easy to add.

 

[62vauxhall]

The gold blob & clip 4000XL III I just checked is 520/530 per side.

It's not with OEM stylus - what's on it is a white one with a flip down guard.

Can't recall the suffix, but an acquaintance also has a gold 4000 that was on a Dual 1229Q he bought new in the 70's - part of a quadraphonic system. Several years ago I researched what a new stylus would cost him and it was about $300.

His stylus is also white but I'm unsure about the flip down guard.

 

[russdall]

The gold blob & clip 4000XL III I just checked is 520/530 per side

Thanks 62vauxhall, is that an ohms reading or inductance ?

 

[desertrat748]

The gold blob & clip 4000XL III I just checked is 520/530 per side.

It's not with OEM stylus - what's on it is a white one with a flip down guard.

Can't recall the suffix, but an acquaintance also has a gold 4000 that was on a Dual 1229Q he bought new in the 70's - part of a quadraphonic system. Several years ago I researched what a new stylus would cost him and it was about $300.

His stylus is also white but I'm unsure about the flip down guard.

ohms resistance? or mH inductance? I'm thinking that's resistance.

 

[desertrat748]

Thanks 62vauxhall, is that an ohms reading or inductance ?

ha ha ha look at us!

 

[russdall]

ha ha ha look at us!

Yar....What good is a Empire list, without accurate information.....Just Sayn'

 

[wualta]

Psst! Guys! For the 4000XL III, a 66 clone despite being a "4000", it's resistance. Another clue: there aren't any 500ish mH bodies in the Blob family. It goes, roughly, 250, 350, 650 (which I've always rounded up to 700) mH. The Z and T are usually up around 800mH despite being spec'd at 675. Okay. Carry on!

 

[desertrat748]

Psst! Guys! For the 4000XL III, a 66 clone despite being a "4000", it's resistance. Another clue: there aren't any 500ish mH bodies in the Blob family. It goes, roughly, 250, 350, 700. The Z and T are up around 800. Okay. Carry on!

Are you volunteering to take over? But thank you for the help.

 

[wualta]

Nope! Stealing silently away now, making my voice fade out...

 

[desertrat748]

Nope! Stealing silently away now, making my voice fade out...

Wouldn't a 2000X with its low inductance fall into the 66 category? Why the fancy red metallic stylus?

 

[wualta]

Mine (I have two clones) measure like 4000Ds. My guess has always been that Empire had a bunch of unsold 4000Ds after CD-4 bit the dust and the 2000X was a way to put them to use.
The fancy redness and fancy script on the body was a way of connecting the X with the glory of the Z, I fancy.

Now, there's not a whole lot of difference between 250 and 350mH, especially in terms of audibility, so a 66 stylus will do fine in a 4000D body and a 4000D stylus will do fine in a 66 body. As with the 4000D, so with the 2000X.

 

[62vauxhall]

Thanks 62vauxhall, is that an ohms reading or inductance ?

That reading was ohms.

 

[russdall]

Psst! Guys! For the 4000XL III, a 66 clone despite being a "4000", it's resistance. Another clue: there aren't any 500ish mH bodies in the Blob family. It goes, roughly, 250, 350, 700. The Z and T are up around 800. Okay. Carry on!

As always....Thanks, Wualta
I was thinking it was resistance, but did not want to assume, (we all know what happens when we assume anything) But it appears I placed myself in the same resulting position, without any assumption at all..... LOL Like my Grand-pappy used to say; "Work Smarter, Not Harder"

And Again......Thank You, 62vauxhall.....For your input.

 

[Grainger49]

I've got two to add to the list, a 2000Z body and a 99E/X (for the 999TE/X I owned new in the '70s). I'll post the numbers when my assistant (wife) gets home.

Let me suggest that the data be put on a Excel spread sheet to average the readings for a given body. There should be a space for outliers to keep them from the correct reading averages. It is just basic statistics.

I'd volunteer for doing a block of 50 pages in the other thread.

 

[desertrat748]

Psst! Guys! For the 4000XL III, a 66 clone despite being a "4000", it's resistance. Another clue: there aren't any 500ish mH bodies in the Blob family. It goes, roughly, 250, 350, 700. The Z and T are up around 800. Okay. Carry on!

^^^ This is why we need you W! Have you ever thrown on a 4239 PDE or DEC on a 4000? I wouldn't know about the inductance with them as my little meter only does resistance. But just wait until we find an Empire with 500mH.

 

[wualta]

Funny you should mention that. I'm actually listening to a 239-PDE (S912E) on a stickered (= old) 440D (poor man's 4000D) now. You can hear that the tinkly bits way up high are more prominent, but unless you're listening for such stuff, it's not going to be obvious. It's a pleasant tweak, but I urge aspiring Empiristas to save the 4000D-family bodies for 4000D, 440D and 2000X styli. On the other hand, low inductance means never having to say you're sorry your cables aren't super-low-capacitance types.

Were there 500mH Empires in other model lineups? Pretty close: the previous-gen 1000ZE/X and 999VE/X were nominally 550mH. Speaking of nominally, I still have not found, after all these years, official, Empire-generated spec sheets for the 66es, 4000Ds or even the 2000Es that show inductance or resistance, which is why we have to measure these things ourselves. In fact, I'm still looking for ANY audio-magazine tests of the 66 and 2000E families. Seems odd that these should be so hard to find. In Feb '76, FM Guide's Len Feldman tested the 2000E/III, but can I find it? Nein.

 

[desertrat748]

Those 4000D and Red metallic 2000X stylus are rare as well a 2000 iii stylus. Too bad they didn’t make more.

I wish Benz would have kept Empire as he went on his own. Could have brought it back to life.

Wualta Is it worth it to get a 4000D or 2000X? I’m thinking that it’s going to be really close to a 66? One of mine measures down to 490 ohms; guessing its low inductance. Maybe I should just get a new multi-meter?

 

[wualta]

It's worth getting a 4000D because it was an all-out effort to produce a cartridge that would play CD-4 reliably at 1g or slightly above, and it succeeded. The styli were the only Empire line-contacts until the EDR.9 and are hard to find, but at least you don't need a 4000D body; you could probably play CD-4 in a 66 clone with no trouble-- Doug G. would be the guy to consult with on this. For mere stereo, piece o' cake.
The question of how much money you'd want to throw at a 4000D is something else. Unless you buy lots of used records, I'd still stick with the Z as currently the higher bang-for-buck proposition.