Empire Thread of Inductance & Resistance for 2000 style bodies

There seems to be a level of excitement in this thread, much higher than than normal for AK. I'd call it "giddy"! Those old Empires really are a high!

I have a NOS 2000Z, only 2-3 hours on it. Love it!!! I don't use it all the time because I have others I others I also love, so it may last awhile before I have to plunge into the darkness of replacement styli.

What does its high resistance and inductance inductance mean in practical terms? Can I hear it?

How do you measure inductance? A separate meter? My meter has no setting for MH.
 
There seems to be a level of excitement in this thread, much higher than than normal for AK. I'd call it "giddy"! Those old Empires really are a high!

I have a NOS 2000Z, only 2-3 hours on it. Love it!!! I don't use it all the time because I have others I others I also love, so it may last awhile before I have to plunge into the darkness of replacement styli.

What does its high resistance and inductance inductance mean in practical terms? Can I hear it?

How do you measure inductance? A separate meter? My meter has no setting for MH.


The high resistance/inductance will play on the high freq. output. The stylus for a low inductance cart won't sound right in a higher inductance cart. If I got this right, Walt can come along and correct if I don't, the low inductance has less wire wrapped in the coils, and its stylus is voiced for that lower amount. If you place it into a higher inductance body, it will roll off the high treble a bit.

I've experienced this myself with Empire carts by using a low inductance EXL-20 stylus in a 2000 E/iii body. But it was a good thing as it was an aftermarket stylus and was a bit bright with the EXL 20 so when swapped out to higher induc. it was better balanced.

As far as measuring mH, you can find some inexpensive meters that will measure inductance. Or you can build your own circuit to do the same thing.
dr
 
DR's explanation is correct. The coils inside the cartridge body act as part of a low-pass filter (abbreviated LPF)-- a fixed tone control, if you like-- that starts rolling off the highs at a certain frequency which varies depending on the inductance, which is determined by the number of turns of wire in those coils.

The moving system's mechanical response has to combine with this LPF to leave us with a flat response curve. To put it another way, the stylus has to be "voiced"-- its response curve has to be massaged into a specific shape-- to work with the body it's going to be mated with and produce that flat curve.
 
And I think it’s based on how much voltage signal they are trying to design for... 0.4V, 0.5V etc. More coils give more voltage but cut into high frequency response. A little bit of a balancing act Between the number of coils the type of suspension, and the output desired.
 
Yup, the whole thing is a balancing act, and you can watch mfrs get more and more adept at fine-slicing this act as time goes on. Sometimes this required a whole new magnetic system, as when Empire built the 2000Z or Shure came up with the V15 Type III, or A-T laminated the pole pieces in their post-1980 MM line, but often a mfr would stay with the same body design for decades. Skilled juggling, all with the goal of getting a transducer to have the response curve of an amplifier.
 
I’m laughing at some of the other posts that I see; saying that they don’t like or actually hate Empires. Supposedly don’t like trying to match the stylus or maybe the sound.

I think to myself, “have you ever heard a 2000Z with the original stylus?”
I haven’t heard anything that has been better balanced.

If there are still some out there that maybe want to properly dispose of them, I am still willing to sacrifice my ears and see if they can be thrown out.

Dr.
 
Question now for all that I have, what other carts do you like that are comparable with your favorite Empire? Are there any options that you find equally enjoyable?

I’m liking my little old Stanton as a back up and almost all mid to upper Shures that I have laying around. I think I would be happy if I had to use one of them instead.
 
...Supposedly don’t like trying to match the stylus or maybe the sound. ...
Most of the complaints I've seen deal with the difficulty of matching styli and bodies-- understandable, though Empire isn't the only guilty party by any means, while that's often implied-- which is why this thread cuts through a lot of those complaints. If you measure and know that there are basically three (more like two-anna-half) families of "blob-on-clip" bodies and three families of styli under all those zillions of goofy model names, you can stop believing in the importance of the names, cut through the marketing baloney, and actually find what you need.
 
Soooo, where's da list/spreadsheet, and or other form of Empire inductance and resistance charts?
I can no longer edit my original list for some reason. There must be a time limit on editing post......dunno
 
...I can no longer edit my original list for some reason. There must be a time limit on editing post......
There is: ~ 1 month. Unless you're a subscriber.
I learn as I go, and make a lot of mistakes along the way.. and am horrified at the thought that I might lead someone astray by not correcting something stupid that I wrote. I want to leave behind useful information. That's my main reason for subscribing.
 
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Page 94 Big Empire Thread

EDR.9 – 264mH
EXL 20 Improved - 322mH
LTD500 – 346mH
2000 E lll – 353mH
999PE/X – 395mH
LTD 455 – 440mH
888 – 540mH
LTD485 – 620mH
1000SE/X – 640mH
A22ME - 640mH
999VE/X – 753mH
2000Z - 775mH
2000T – 806mH

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....e-running-vintage-empire-carts.468129/page-94

Page 109


http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....-running-vintage-empire-carts.468129/page-109

4000 DI..................... R 260mH / L 240mH *
EDR .9...................... R 261mH / L 259mH
ID50.......................... R 360mH / L 347mH
888 PE...................... R 529mH / L 520mH
2300E improved....... R 619 mH / L 592 mH,
400TC...................... R 581mH / L 601mH,
66 QE/X................... R 619mH / L 616mH,
TC40........................ R 637mH L639mH,
 
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Newly acquired Empire carts;

999 XE/X.........R 274 mH.........L 272 mH

1000 XL/E.......R 281 mH.........L 288 mH

66 QE/X..........R 301 mH..........L 315 mH

1000 E/X.........R 338 mH.........L 343 mH

2000 QX ...,...R 349 mH...........L 339 mH

3000 ME/X.....R 350 mH..........L 349 mH

5000 XEI.........R 359 mH.........L 337 mH

999 VE/X........R 591 mH.........L 586 mH

TC-40..............R 704 mH........L 696 mH
 
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