EQ's and External XO's

[yamahafanatc]

So, I have been thinking lately about adding a nice (thinking 31 band or 1/3 oct.) EQ to my system and have several questions.
1. Price is a significant factor. There are a few on EBay for $100-125. Is there any quality available for that price?
2. If quality is attainable at said price, what are recommended models, brands?
3. I don't want to boost say 20-40 Hz to my main speakers (check sig.) since they are only 10" woofers and I don't want to end up reforming them, thus I don't want to jam them in and out, so I was thinking about a 2 way external XO. Is this a good idea?
4. If so, I have seen a few on EBay for $30-$60, again, is there quality there?
5. One I kinda like is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTX-ELECTR...630439?hash=item363af8fde7:g:CwoAAOSwIeFbNS1G *NO AFFILIATION
6. Am I right to think I could use it to send say >100 Hz to my main power amp in and <120 Hz to my subwoofer?

I know there is a lot to digest here and if you don't understand my wording please ask.
Thanks everyone in advance

 

[JoeESP9]

Boosting the bass in the 20Hz to 40Hz area has nothing to with harming foam surrounds. That's a question of age. Old foam dries out and disintegrates.

The crossover you linked to is a speaker level crossover designed for use in a car. External crossovers for home use are generally line level and designed to feed separate power amplifiers. I suspect you might be better served by an equalizer. Unless you're trying to be ultra cheap or are stuck on vintage I suggest a new equalizer. There are numerous ones available. Check Guitar Center, Musicians Friend or any of several other sites for an equalizer.

1/3 octave/31 band equalizers are a royal PITA to adjust manually (too many sliders) without some sort of measurement system (mic and test tones minimum). If what you're looking for is a super tone control a 10 or 12 band equalizer may be exactly what you want.

 

[toxcrusadr]

What do you have for a subwoofer? If it is self amplified, usually those have an internal crossover that would do the splitting for you.

If it is not self amplified, you would need a second amp to power it, in which case the line level crossover JoeESP9 suggests is the way to go.

You could use a pair of these, quite simple and available in various crossover frequencies:

https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-fmod-inline-crossover-pair-150-hz-low-pass-rca--266-256

Basically use a set of Y cables from the line-out of your preamp, one leg to the main speaker amp and the other leg to these crossover doohickies and from there to the sub amp input.

You can't really do this job with an equalizer.

As for EQ's, there have been some other threads on 'what's a good EQ' so you might try a search.

 

[toxcrusadr]

For example, I found the following in a jiffy by searching AK for "good EQ" (including the quotes).

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/equalizer-quality-makes-a-difference.830250/

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/to-equalize-or-not-to-equalize.786044/

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-are-some-good-equalizers-or-parametric-eq.765731/#post-10453926

People are downloading big stereo rigs these days and EQs are fairly easy to find. I found a couple of mono 31 band pro audio rack mounts that work dandy for less than $40 each.

 

[Tedrick]

You don't mention what speakers you are using, but if you want to use an external crossover, you'll need to completely rewire your speakers to bypass the internal passive crossovers. However, if you're just wanting a little more flexibility in fine tuning the sound to fit your room and tastes, then an equalizer is what you want. I haven't used an equalizer in any if my systems in years, so I'm not too up on brands, but one brand that does seem to get a lot of respect here is ADC.

Oh, and if you don't want to boost a certain frequency range when using an equalizer, just leave the sliders for those particular frequencies flat.

 

[JediDude]

The MTX branded crossover you linked to is an automotive unit. You'll neeed to supply clean 12VDC power to it for it to work. I have no experience with these, so I won't comment on its audio fidelity capabilities.
BTW, this particular unit is a line level output device.

 

[yamahafanatc]

You don't mention what speakers you are using, but if you want to use an external crossover, you'll need to completely rewire your speakers to bypass the internal passive crossovers. However, if you're just wanting a little more flexibility in fine tuning the sound to fit your room and tastes, then an equalizer is what you want. I haven't used an equalizer in any if my systems in years, so I'm not too up on brands, but one brand that does seem to get a lot of respect here is ADC.

Oh, and if you don't want to boost a certain frequency range when using an equalizer, just leave the sliders for those particular frequencies flat.

My speakers are yamaha NS-670's as noted in my signature.
What my plan would be with an external XO to send everything over 100 Hz to the main speakers so I would not need to rewire them and everything 120 Hz and lower would go to my subwoofer. I was thinking this because if i boost bass levels so the sub amp would get as hot/ use as much power, then my main woofers might move too much and wear out the surrounds.

The MTX branded crossover you linked to is an automotive unit. You'll neeed to supply clean 12VDC power to it for it to work. I have no experience with these, so I won't comment on its audio fidelity capabilities.
BTW, this particular unit is a line level output device.

I did not know about the 12V part.
Do you know of any 110-120 VAC External XO's?

 

[Nightwisher]

I always recommend MiniDSPs, especially when both EQ and crossover functions are needed. I've had 2 and am using a 2x4HD in my main system. They are very nice units for a fairly low cost.

 

[JediDude]

Several companies make external line-powered (110-120VAC) crossovers, but the ones I have looked at are all intended to sit in the signal path between a pre-amp and power amp. They are mostly used for large venue sound systems with active bi-amping or tri-amping arrangements.
Then again, I'm sure there's more than one AK'er that uses them at home in a bi- or tri-amp arrangement.

 

[432HzBob]

I can't imagine getting an actual "good quality" EQ for under $100.
"Good EQ's have a quiet noise floor you pay for, and accuracy in the tuning.
"Cheap" EQ's are usually noiser and add something to the background.
Older Technics SH-series EQ's are an OK price/value. Yamaha EQ's are pretty good values.
Older Pioneer EQ's are decent too but their price has really gone up the last few years.
Audiocontrol EQ's are good, but they too have doubled in price last few years.

 

[yamahafanatc]

I can't imagine getting an actual "good quality" EQ for under $100.
"Good EQ's have a quiet noise floor you pay for, and accuracy in the tuning.
"Cheap" EQ's are usually noiser and add something to the background.
Older Technics SH-series EQ's are an OK price/value. Yamaha EQ's are pretty good values.
Older Pioneer EQ's are decent too but their price has really gone up the last few years.
Audiocontrol EQ's are good, but they too have doubled in price last few years.

Hmmm....I could go for another Yamaha piece
Do you know anything about the Q2031B?
Im really looking for a 31 band...

 

[432HzBob]

Not familiar with the rack mount EQ's. There are alot of choices it seems though.
I just run a Yamaha GE 550, not used much, has a nifty light display and is probably the last EQ i'll need for years.

 

[yamahafanatc]

Not familiar with the rack mount EQ's. There are alot of choices it seems though.
I just run a Yamaha GE 550, not used much, has a nifty light display and is probably the last EQ i'll need for years.
View attachment 1275027

I really want more bands unless you can convince me that I really dont need them

 

[sqlsavior]

I suspect your woofer surrounds are fabric, not foam. Can you verify this? If they are fabric, then you should not need to worry about them. This would remove the need for a crossover, or the odd idea of using an equalizer for that purpose. The notion of relieving the mains of low bass to improve clarity is not necessarily as applicable for mains with big woofers. If your mains had smaller, mid-woofers that would struggle with low bass, that would be different. I would expect you to risk more sound quality than the potential for gain with either of your contemplated additions.

 

[pskaudio]

I really want more bands unless you can convince me that I really dont need them

White Instruments 4301 1/6 octave active EQ. You'll need two for stereo. Price is less of an issue than finding them.

Based on your budget and requirements... it's not going to happen. Rethink your plan, maybe there's another way to get the effect you want.

 

[yamahafanatc]

White Instruments 4301 1/6 octave active EQ. You'll need two for stereo.

Maybe not that many...

i was thinking about 31 bands...is that reasonable or just extra fluff?

 

[JoeESP9]

I really want more bands unless you can convince me that I really dont need them

It all depends on your primary reason for having an equalizer. If it's to flatten in room response and used in a set and forget configuration a 1/3 octave (31 band) equalizer is probably the best option other than a DSP. If you want it to tweak the sound as you're listening to music a ten or twelve band equalizer is probably more appropriate.

FWIW: I use a 12 band DSP along with a calibrated mic and REW to help flatten my in room response. My DSP is used in a set and forget mode. I have no tone controls or any other signal modifying devices.

 

[pskaudio]

Maybe not that many...

i was thinking about 31 bands...is that reasonable or just extra fluff?

Are you trying to make adjustments across the entire audio band or is this specifically for the low end?
I'm guessing you're looking for more "punch" and extension in the bottom octaves. FYI, most music doesn't have much information below 40Hz.

 

[432HzBob]

I really want more bands unless you can convince me that I really dont need them

I wouldn't try to convince you to need more bands.
I do know for my needs anyway, 16 bands is more than enough for my needs
which are just a bit here an there up or down,
usually in the mids to compensate for one or another phono cartridge.
I used to set up for live concerts and observed the sound guys set EQ's for the hall
(usually known and written down from previous setups) and they would add or subtract a bit here and there.
I have never the need to get raical with the EQ,
never more than 2 db +/-.
I giggle to myself when seeing the radical "smiley face" EQ settings,
+/- 10-12 db, and think to myself
"Wow, that guy has to have a pretty ate up system to need than much EQ"

 

[teal'c]

If you want to take a chance on an untested unit, there's a Yamaha Natural Sound GE-30 on Ebay for a good starting price. I've got the model lower I've been using for the last 7-8 years I'm quite happy with.