Equipment break-in, myth or fact?

Lets all be careful about presenting opinions or anecdotal experiences as universal absolute truths.... or this thread could swirl down the drain in a hurry!
 
Speakers... sure why not. Electrical components, I say you have been hanging out in recording studios too long. :D
 
hpsenicka said:
Lets all be careful about presenting opinions or anecdotal experiences as universal absolute truths.... or this thread could swirl down the drain in a hurry!

OK MY oppinion is it's a FACT!
 
In my case, I have a hard time buying into "break-in" when it comes to things like wire, but I do buy in to the concept as far as capacitors are concerned.

Where elctromechnical devices (like speakers) are concerned, it seems logical that there should be some "break-in" effect occurring when the device is powered up for the first time and is excersized through the full range of motion.

Whether or not I can actually hear the difference is another matter.

I also suspect that some folks may be confusing "warm-up" and "break-in" .... I have experienced several cases where a system's sound has changed ( almost always for the better ) after a brief warm-up period. This is not a surprise to owners of tube gear, but I have also experienced tha same effect with solid state gear. .. a noticable change in sound after a 15 or 20 minute warm up.

Admidetdly, some of the effect could be psycho-acoustic.
 
Funny thing is, I used to subscribe to the same theory of "let it break in it'll sound better". I have had many pieces of hifi come through my house over the years and lately I just don't buy this theory any more. It seems like at best I am struggling to hear the difference new vs many hours.

The last 2 pieces were HD650 headphones and Mcintosh MCD201 CD player. Neither one have sounded even remotely different after the first few minutes of playing (that's a good thing!). I used the same well recorded CD and exact same volume setting everyday for the first week as a reference to make it easier to track the differences.

I think a lot of times, people use different CD's and different volume settings to arrive at the conclusion that a device is getting burned in and therefore sounds better. I think manufacturers would like you to believe that it will get better with time to minimize returns and make the dealer's life easier.

As far as I am concerned, if you don't like the way it sounds out of the box, run back to the dealer! That's just my opinion.
 
On the Warm up question: Had an interesting one on a recent Sansui 2000A score. I habitually check DC offset on every system that I bring home. This one was NOT like most Sansui Gear I have brought home. It was very high, around 250mv, where every Sansui I had brought home was 25 or less, usually much less. Then I noticed it was dropping. I decided to let it run a while, and when I came back it was within specs. Tried it again later thinking possibly it was old caps not fully charged after how many years of setting, but other than a slightly lower start point, same deal.

Transistors in particular are not created equal, and can change in performance from cold to hot. (Ask any EE) between that and old caps, I think the warm up is able to affect the audible performance for better or for worse. (I could see a unit starting within spec and falling out after warm-up easy)

Speakers I am morally certain (after reading the article more than certain) that they need break-in. Tubes, probably “benefit” from it (As well as warm-up) since some hours of running will change the surface finish of a new, unused tube to some degree, and that surface dictates its performance. Caps I’m insure of, for both warm-up and break-in, but what about reforming old caps? That seems to have a basis of reality, and perhaps on net performance.

Is psycho acoustics real? I believe so. Hearing something for a period of time does make it “sound” better. As proof, how many have listened to a song for the first time and thought it stunk, or at best were unimpressed? After listening to it more, sometimes much more, it grows on you. The record companies don’t pay for play time for nothing. Soda companies used to give away free samples to try hooking people on the taste, as people like to get things free, and they acquire a taste for it. (Does ANYONE ever enjoy there first taste of scotch?)

Wow, had no Idea I had so much to say on this. Better stop now! :D
 
"(Does ANYONE ever enjoy there first taste of scotch?)"
no...but the first taste of a fine brandy definately helps 'warm up' and once your capacitors are 'charged' after 20 minutes or so and your resistors have stopped resisting...just about anything will sound better as your whole system 'burns in' and loosens up:D
 
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I'll agree that speakers do require some break in time and tubes sound "better" after a half hour or so of warm up time. Transistor amps sound the same no matter how long you leave those turned on. Just because one person can't "hear" the changes doesn't mean the changes aren't there.

Mike
 
99% of break-in is the component between your brains. Companies realize this, that is why they recommend xx hours of listening, give time for your brain to adjust. Speakers I agree 100% that they do need break-in, they are a mechanical device with moving parts.
 
Capacitors can change drastically in sonics after break in. I've heard it happen first
hand quite often. The higher the voltage through them the shorter the burn in time.
 
Paul C said:


Man, I wish speaker design was as easy as these guys make it out to be. Just run some measurements, plug it into the software and out pops the perfect speaker. Sadly, as any competant, or not so competant speaker designer will tell you, the measurements and the formulas are the BEGINNING of speaker design, certainly not the end.
 
Bigerik said:
Man, I wish speaker design was as easy as these guys make it out to be. Just run some measurements, plug it into the software and out pops the perfect speaker. Sadly, as any competant, or not so competant speaker designer will tell you, the measurements and the formulas are the BEGINNING of speaker design, certainly not the end.

Agreed, you start with the calculations, get it in the ballpark with measurements then finish it by ear.

It can take a long long time to get it to sound right.
 
My tubes need at least a 1/2 hour warm up time or the music sounds 'thin'.

My CDP also sounds better after warming up for about an hour. Ever notice that DAC's don't have an on / off switch? It's because they sound terrible when 'cold'.

I noticed that new wire also needs burn in time. But not 'warm up' time.

YMMV
 
The idea of 'break-in' could go either way also..

I hear all this talk of components sounding better after they warm-up...or break in.

Why must it go this way?.... :scratch2:

Is it possible, givin' the charactorstics (however ya spell it!..) of individual components, ie resistors...and caps, that a piece could actually sound 'better' when cold...and get worse after warm-up or 'break-in'...because of the change of charactorstics of the components themselves..

I have heard the difference between warm tubes...and cold tubes...and yes there is a dramatic difference on sound quality....but in seniconductor technology...there are so many parts that are the same... but made up of slightly different materials... that there will have to be a change of propreties which would lead to a difference of charactorstics of the component when a temperature change occurs.


So why couldnt a circuit sound better when cold?...


Just a little something to ponder whild spinnin some smooth jazz with a cold beer in hand... :D :smoke:
 
let's be scientific

The closest thing to an experiment to shed light on this was done on AK by Bigerik. If someone could post a link to his 3960 thread...
 
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